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Topic: Lashley LaGrande Counterforce / Return Compensators? |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2021 8:40 am |
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I'm working on a D-10 Emmons Lashley LaGrande. It has a crossrod that doesn't move, with 5 pull rods attached to it on the E9th. I assume that this is the famous "Counterforce" mechanism, or maybe they are return compensators. The tuning nuts for the pull rods are white (see photo below).
The guitar has LKV lowering both B strings a half step. I want to add a Franklin pedal which would lower both B strings a full step. The unusual rods use lower holes in the changer, effectively turning the guitar into triple raise, single lower on those strings.
Is there a solution for this?
Also, is there an aftermarket source for pull rods for this guitar?
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 2 Jul 2021 8:44 am
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| b0b -- that's a return compensator set-up. Counterforce would be visible as hardware pressing against the middle of the changer axle. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Jul 2021 10:06 am return compensators
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Yeah, the more I thought about it... 
So, I guess if you want two lowers on a string, you can't have a return compensator? Or can they be set up on a raise hole instead?
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 2 Jul 2021 10:20 am
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Well......it's about compensating for lowers returning sharp. So it's the lowers that are being treated.
I'm thankful for my triple lowers.
I am still fuzzy-brained about the physics. Williams guitars don't even use o-rings which confuses the hell out of me. But I can say for reasonably sure that if there was a change that I really wanted, I'd ditch the compensator to free up the hole in a heartbeat. |
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Anthony Parish
From:
Austin
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Posted 2 Jul 2021 12:27 pm Re: Lashley LaGrande Counterforce / Return Compensators?
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| b0b wrote: |
| Also, is there an aftermarket source for pull rods for this guitar? |
Yes, I just ordered a couple of pull rods from Billy Knowles @ Steel Guitar East for my LeGrande.
http://steelguitareast.com/
You can get them from him.
-Tony Parish |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 4 Jul 2021 3:30 pm
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Bob you should check with Michael Yahl for parts as well:
https://www.psgparts.com/main.sc
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 5:58 am
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Bob, I ran into the same issue when I added some changes on my LeGrande, many years ago. Ron Lashley sent me a couple of these.
This way you can use ONE pull rod to work on a couple of different pedals.
The only thing is that when you are tuning, if you have to tune the pedal, you reach underneath, like with the push-pulls. But these little devices are rock solid and would rarely need tuning unless you change string.
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AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 9:06 am
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That's a picture of a push-pull though, right Bill? (I don't see a 14-hole bell crank.) Good idea...
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 9:14 am
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That is correct. I did not notice your bellcranks. I have the 4 hole and it worked great.
There's got to be a "workaround".
Why don't you message or email Jack Strayhorn and see if he will respond. If anyone would know, it would be him.
or Billy Knowles
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AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter. |
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Gary Watkins
From:
Bristol, VA
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 9:19 am
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Mike Cass seems to know quite a bit about an Emmons. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=185465
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If you succeed in cheating someone, don't think that the person is a fool. It's just that the person trusted you far more than you deserved. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 9:22 am
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The rods are made from welding rod. If you are into it you can thread them with a small tap and die and bend them to suit.
Welding rod is cheap and everywhere. Making a proper part for a steel can be a little tricky though.
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Bob |
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Kelcey ONeil
From:
Sevierville, TN
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 10:40 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| That's a picture of a push-pull though, right Bill? (I don't see a 14-hole bell crank.) Good idea... |
Bob,
IΓ’β¬β’ve some 4 hole bell cranks and adjustable swivels you can have if youΓ’β¬β’re interested, they would work in the way that Bill described his setup. Also I have the rods as well. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 12:14 pm
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I ended up just not using the return compensator on the middle B, and removing the vertical change on the low B. My customer picked up the guitar this morning. He's going to play it for a while as is and see if he needs any more work done on it.
Thanks for all the help, guys. 
_________________
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