| Author |
Topic: Picking out notes / melody's |
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 13 May 2010 7:52 am |
|
Hello all
can any one explain the following Please how to go about it, poss where to start..
working out the melody on single notes, picking out melody...where do the other notes that acompany the melody note..IE some I see tabed with the melody line on the higest or top note + either 1 note or 2 notes that go with it....They are notes that sound good together....but what notes go with what is it the chord notes,
It would be great is some could explain
Thank you
Regards Paul |
|
|
 |
Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 13 May 2010 10:03 am
|
|
A lot of melody lines are harmonized in sixths. For example, if you take the C scale and write it again starting with the sixth note:
| Code: |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
C D E F G A B C
A B C D E F G A |
You can see the harmony notes below the melody notes.
OK, this is actually inverted, so it is harmonized in thirds, which is also useful. See post below for better explanation of sixths.
Last edited by Lynn Oliver on 18 May 2010 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 13 May 2010 10:41 am
|
|
The top note is the melody note.
You need to know what the chord is in order to add harmony.
C Chord: C E G
F Chord: F A C
G7th Chord: G B D F
and etc. |
|
|
|
John Ed Kelly
From:
Victoria, Australia
|
Posted 13 May 2010 8:25 pm
|
|
Paul, from on beginner to another then........
Lynn Oliver's grid is good. You might also experiment with (starting note) C+Ab, which, according to my rudimentary grasp of theory, would be a flatted 6th.
Also useful would be C+Eb which is possibly called a flatted 3rd.
Anyway, whatever the correct technical term, the two notes combine well most of the way up and down the fretboard.
I should point out that my tuning (low to high:Eb,F,A,C,D,F) facilitates this for me using a straight bar. It may not work in a straight line for you, so in that event, slanting could be investigated.
Unlike the legit world of orchestral instruments, I have found that, to get anywhere, you have to be unorthodox.
I'm still plugging away - perhaps there should be a ''Beginners'' section to this forum. |
|
|
|
Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
|
Posted 14 May 2010 2:01 am
|
|
The key to picking out melodies is developing your relative pitch. Work one note at a time. What's the first note? What's the next note? Start with easy, familiar melodies to develop your ear. Tunes are built on intervals ... here's a cut/paste from a site listing a few you likely know. Start with trying to pick out the melody on one string ...
Minor 2nd: up = Pink panther, Jaws theme.
Major 2nd: up = Happy birthday
down = mary had a little lamb, 3 blind mice.
Minor 3rd: up = greensleeves
down = This old man.
Perfect 4th: up = Amazing grace, Auld Lang Syne.
down = Born Free.
Augmented 4th: up = "The Simp.." from The Simpsons theme.
Perfect 5th: up = Twinkle twinkle little star, theme from ET.
Major 6ths: up = My Bonny lies over the ocean.
down = Nobody knows the trouble i've seen.
Minor 7th: up = Original Star Trek theme, Somewhere (West Side Story)
Octave up = Somewhere over the Rainbow.
Minor 2nd: down = Mozart Symphony no 40
Major 2nd: up = Frere Jacques
Minor 3rd: up = greensleeves
Augmented 4th: up = Maria (Westside Story)
Perfect 5th: up = Twinkle twinkle little star
Minor 6ths (down) = Where do I begin (Francis Lai)
Major 6ths: up = My Bonny lies over the ocean.
Minor 7th: up = Somewhere (West Side Story)
Perfect Octave = Somewhere over the Rainbow.
THe guitar (and steel) is one of the few instruments where you can play the same note in multiple places. Try playing the melody on the bass AND treble strings. The biggest help in learning to figure out melodies on your guitar is to just do it. Practice makes better, if not perfect.
Once you've got the melody, you can think about harmony. 6ths, 3rds & octaves are a good place to start. In good chord melody playing, the melody is usually (but not always) played on the top of the chord. Hope this helps. |
|
|
|
John Ed Kelly
From:
Victoria, Australia
|
Posted 14 May 2010 10:26 pm
|
|
''Start with trying to pick out the melody on one string ... ''
Andy,
This looks like a useful list of tunes. I never thought of learning intervals using specific tunes - mainly because I have never been heavily in to theory - but SG is demanding that I know more about chords, in general. I have always tried to nut it out (on clarinet that is) using some loosely based theory and.......trial and error.......mainly.
Having been a clarinet player all along, my first thoughts were to play the SG the same way (vertically, as I call it) that is, up and down the fretboard. I gather that this may not be the ultimate way to pick out melodies, but unless you know all the notes on every string, it's the only way for me to go.
Picking out melodies on adjacent strings is difficult and I'm prone to poor intonation at times. I'm practicing at not looking at the fretboard too, as I need to check the chord sequence from my fakebook and I can't look in two places at once.
So, now that I can play some simple melodies 'vertically' I can add an adjacent string to harmonise with it - to a point. But picking an adjacent string with the correct harmony seems to be the next hurdle to overcome.
I'm also a bit baffled by the notion of ''chord solos''.
My basic theory tell me that a chord is a group of three notes or more, so a chord solo, seems to be quite a mystery to me. I gather that SG players in general, seem to call a two note harmony a chord, am I correct here? To be pedantic, two notes together is not a chord, but I defer to the more knowledgeable here.
Many thanks for you assistance
JK |
|
|
|
Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
|
|
|
|
John Ed Kelly
From:
Victoria, Australia
|
Posted 15 May 2010 5:00 am
|
|
Egad!
I guess this shuts me up for a while. |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 15 May 2010 3:06 pm
|
|
Thank you so much every on
I am at presant digesting all the posts,
I find the replys fantistic as each reply answers with a different explanation of the same thing ( as it would be in music, but some explain it in different ways. So I find going over and over it sinks in..
I am also glad some one else is also getting something out of it...
Andy picking out notes, what I have done is tried picking out notes but as others have said the danger is that one tends to go up and down one string...
I have taken sheet music I use for the keyboard which I guess is panio music with guitar chords on Im sure you know the type...Then useing charts found the right notes (for what ever key it is in ) and worked it out that way.....
What I have found doing it that way paino works on middle c bit on the steel this sounds too low..
so after working thoes out I need the harmany notes to go with them...AS you know Im a beginner so I am also useing book & training blocking etc, but I think a little experimenting on its own dosent hurt...Thank you once again thoes that have given their input it has been very much apprecaited and very useful also...I will be sure and let you know my progress Thanks again Paul |
|
|
|
Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
|
Posted 15 May 2010 5:09 pm
|
|
...the danger is that one tends to go up and down one string
On the contrary, this is one of the best ways to understand intervals. Many non-western musical traditions place great value on playing along a single string. There's a whole school of progressive jazz guitarists who make this technique a cornerstone of how they approach improvisation ... Pat Metheny, Mick Goodrick, etc. It's just another tool to help you learn the neck and make music. Having multiple tools in your toolbox is a good thing. |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 16 May 2010 5:45 am
|
|
Paul,
You are right about the relationship of the guitar to a piano. I play off of piano music with my guitar but to be correct, the music should be written an octave higher to be correct for the guitar.
Harmony is all based on the notes in the chord. The notes in a chord are the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of that particular scale. Those are the notes that will harmonize. I was very fortunate when taking guitar lessons that my instructor ont only taught me the instrument but also music in general. I had chords pounded into my head and I haven't forgotten them these 50+ years later.
When I'm working on tab, the first thing that I do is go through the music, note the key it is written in and then write down the notes. From these, I figure out the chords. The high note is the melody note and from the above, I can work out the harmony.
I am a "chordal" melody player and all my tabs are written in this fashion. It is very seldom that I don't employ full, three string grips. |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 17 May 2010 6:31 am
|
|
| Lynn Oliver wrote: |
A lot of melody lines are harmonized in sixths. For example, if you take the C scale and write it again starting with the sixth note:
| Code: |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
C D E F G A B C
A B C D E F G A |
You can see the harmony notes below the melody notes. |
Thank you Lynn..I will try that,
Ill let you know how I get on..
Thank you Regards paul |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 17 May 2010 11:00 am
|
|
| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Paul,
You are right about the relationship of the guitar to a piano. Harmony is all based on the notes in the chord. The notes in a chord are the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of that particular scale. Those are the notes that will harmonize. I was very fortunate when taking guitar lessons that my instructor ont only taught me the instrument but also music in general. I had chords pounded into my head and I haven't forgotten them these 50+ years later.
When I'm working on tab, the first thing that I do is go through the music, note the key it is written in and then write down the notes. From these, I figure out the chords. The high note is the melody note and from the above, I can work out the harmony.
I am a "chordal" melody player and all my tabs are written in this fashion. It is very seldom that I don't employ full, three string grips. |
Thank you Erv..could you explain a bit more for me please..One problem I having working of sheet music is IF the first note is say C looking at the fretboard is picking WHAT C to start from. at the mo its hit and miss..After finding the A and the next note is G sharp which way to go..Say I chose A 3rd string open then for the G goto 5th string 2nd fret third note E 6th string 4th fret, then c sharp 6th string fret...is this the right way to go...
The chords say the melody note is A I carnt find to be able to make up a chord or could i go A and E open together...I hope you or somone are able to understand what Im trying to say
Or if Im totaly wrong could you explain please.
Thank you for your help..I dont think I am the easiest of students when it comes to music..
Regards Paul |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 17 May 2010 11:14 am
|
|
We're right back to chords again.
If you are looking for a C, you need to know the chord. If the Chord is F, that contains a C
If the Chord is C, that, of course, contains a C.
If the chord is D7, that contains a C
If the chord is Aminor, that contains a C
and on and on.
If all you want to play is single note, then it is not a problem as you can find C's all over the map.
But if you want to add harmony to the C, you need to know the chord!
Maybe this will help:
 |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 17 May 2010 1:28 pm
|
|
Thank you Erv, for taking so much of you time to help,Im sorry Im not getting it stright away.
What tuning are you useing..Im looking at your chords on the sheet music but dont know what the strings are, so I can see what you have done
No I dont want to just be able to play single notes other wise i wouldent waist your time
Am I getting any where near thinking that the melody is the highest note in the chord ? so if Im playing a C melody note I need to look for where I can get the other notes E and the G all at the same time..
I think if I know the tunning you are useing with that sheet music I might be able to see what you have done...( I have C6 )
I hope im not anoying you too much
Thank you very much Regards Paul |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 17 May 2010 1:43 pm
|
|
Paul,
All my tabs are done in the E9th pedal tuning.
I will post a breakdown below.
You are correct, the top note is the medody note.
Everything below is harmony.
And yes, if the melody note is C and the chord is C, you need to find the strings to add the E & G.
 |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 17 May 2010 2:08 pm
|
|
Hi Erv
That was FAST...
now Im total confused..feel like the village idot...
you lost me with all the numbers but I take it that they are the open strings notes on the side..
Ill print off tomorrow write the notes on the other pic you sent and see if I can work out what you have done (arrived at the chords )its getting late here in the uk..Im sure I will get it in the end..
thanks for being so patent with me
Im hoping it will sink in soon
Best regards Paul..ps I thought some day I would learn the pedal seeing that diagram i dont think ill bother... |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 18 May 2010 3:07 am
|
|
Hi Erv
Thank you once again....
Quote "Everything below is harmony.
And yes, if the melody note is C and the chord is C, you need to find the strings to add the E & G."
the line above.. taking it one step further
if the melody is C then what other chord could go with it..if the melody note has to be the highest note..Sorry Its not sinking in very quick
Regards Paul |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 18 May 2010 8:34 am
|
|
| Andy Volk wrote: |
The key to picking out melodies is developing your relative pitch. Work one note at a time. What's the first note? What's the next note? Start with easy, familiar melodies to develop your ear. Tunes are built on intervals ... here's a cut/paste from a site listing a few you likely know. Start with trying to pick out the melody on one string ...
Minor 2nd: up = Pink panther, Jaws theme.
Major 2nd: up = Happy birthday
down = mary had a little lamb, 3 blind mice.
Minor 3rd: up = greensleeves
down = This old man.
Perfect 4th: up = Amazing grace, Auld Lang Syne.
down = Born Free.
Augmented 4th: up = "The Simp.." from The Simpsons theme.
Perfect 5th: up = Twinkle twinkle little star, theme from ET.
Major 6ths: up = My Bonny lies over the ocean.
down = Nobody knows the trouble i've seen.
Minor 7th: up = Original Star Trek theme, Somewhere (West Side Story)
Octave up = Somewhere over the Rainbow.
Minor 2nd: down = Mozart Symphony no 40
Major 2nd: up = Frere Jacques
Minor 3rd: up = greensleeves
Augmented 4th: up = Maria (Westside Story)
Perfect 5th: up = Twinkle twinkle little star
Minor 6ths (down) = Where do I begin (Francis Lai)
Major 6ths: up = My Bonny lies over the ocean.
Minor 7th: up = Somewhere (West Side Story)
Perfect Octave = Somewhere over the Rainbow.
THe guitar (and steel) is one of the few instruments where you can play the same note in multiple places. Try playing the melody on the bass AND treble strings. The biggest help in learning to figure out melodies on your guitar is to just do it. Practice makes better, if not perfect.
Once you've got the melody, you can think about harmony. 6ths, 3rds & octaves are a good place to start. In good chord melody playing, the melody is usually (but not always) played on the top of the chord. Hope this helps. |
Hi Andy Thank you for your imput...
Im sorry I dont realy understand Re the 2nd up 5th up and all the others, the list of songs I dont know what to do with them sorry..
its not too bad picking the notes to a song but the notes are no good on there own unless you are playing stuff..Best regards Paul |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 18 May 2010 10:14 am
|
|
I hate to keep repeating myself but the harmony notes that would go along with a C would depend on what the Chord is.
If it's an F chord, the harmony notes would be F & A.
If it's a D7th Chord, the harmony notes would be D, F# and A.
If it's an A minor chord, the harmony notes would be A & E.
If it's an F# diminished chord, the harmony notes would be F# & A.
If it's a E augmented chord, the harmony notes would be E & G#.
And on and on. |
|
|
|
Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 18 May 2010 10:36 am
|
|
Paul, what tuning are you using?
What I've done in the past is to make a chart of the notes in a tuning, for example in A6:
| Code: |
E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E
C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C#
A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A
F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F#
E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E
C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C#
A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A
F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F#
|
The first string is on top, and I have entered all the scale tones for the key of A. The frets between the scale tones are marked with a "*".
Now, go through and circle the scale notes in the key you want to play in. Then find the harmony note on the same fret for each scale tone using a chart like the sixths chart I posted above, circle those and connect them to the scale notes. Now you have a simple harmonized scale, and you can use it to play a harmonized melody in the chosen key. |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 18 May 2010 12:55 pm
|
|
| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
I hate to keep repeating myself but the harmony notes that would go along with a C would depend on what the Chord is.
If it's an F chord, the harmony notes would be F & A.
If it's a D7th Chord, the harmony notes would be D, F# and A.
If it's an A minor chord, the harmony notes would be A & E.
If it's an F# diminished chord, the harmony notes would be F# & A.
If it's a E augmented chord, the harmony notes would be E & G#.
And on and on. |
Hi again Erv..I am realy sorry Im not getting it..
(I am trying but missing something somewhere )
You might have answered part of what is not sinking in..I thought That it the note was say C then it would have to be a C chord..is that where Im going wrong..????Thank you again for your help Regards Paul |
|
|
|
Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
|
Posted 18 May 2010 1:07 pm
|
|
C is just a note.
As shown above, it can be used in a number of chords.
It is not just limited to the C chord. |
|
|
|
Paul Higgins
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 18 May 2010 2:07 pm
|
|
| Lynn Oliver wrote: |
Paul, what tuning are you using?
What I've done in the past is to make a chart of the notes in a tuning, for example in A6:
| Code: |
E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E
C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C#
A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A
F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F#
E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E
C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C#
A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A
F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F# * G# A * B * C# D * E * F#
|
The first string is on top, and I have entered all the scale tones for the key of A. The frets between the scale tones are marked with a "*".
Now, go through and circle the scale notes in the key you want to play in. Then find the harmony note on the same fret for each scale tone using a chart like the sixths chart I posted above, circle those and connect them to the scale notes. Now you have a simple harmonized scale, and you can use it to play a harmonized melody in the chosen key. |
Thank you Lynn
I am useing C6 tuning..
is it poss to show an example in any way..??
Regards Paul |
|
|
|
Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
|
Posted 18 May 2010 3:03 pm
|
|
You need to do in your tuning what I did in A6; make a chart that shows every note on every string--either by hand or on your computer.
The only tricky thing is inversions, which I neglected to mention above. Intervals are counted from the bottom up, so an A over a C is a sixth (count C, D, E, F, G, A--1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6). If you put a C over an A you have a third (A, B, C--1, 2, 3). So if you want a sixth interval but you know the top note, you have to find the note that C is a sixth above.
Here is the C scale harmonized in sixths as the top notes:
| Code: |
C D E F G A B
E F G A B C D
|
Now, find a C that has an E at the same fret on a lower string. Mark those as a harmony pair on your chart. Do the same for the rest of the scale (D and F, E and G, etc.), and you should soon see how the harmonized scale lays out in your tuning.
What note is each of your strings tuned to? |
|
|
|
