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Topic: Experiences Recording Yourself |
Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 5:42 pm |
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I have to thank Bobby Lee for giving me the inspiration to get back into recording. His collection is up to #40 now, so it's touch and go whether I'll be in time for the first volume.
I made a start this afternoon. The first thing I noticed was that the previous entry in my Recording Log was February, 2009. I couldn't believe it had been two years since my last recordings.  
So, I decided to record something simple, something that I made up years ago, and played frequently on the Dobro.  But could I get it right ? Not at all.  I did about 20 takes and always ended up fumbling something, or missing a note. I eventually gave up for the day; my fingers too cold to play.
Does anyone else suffer from Recording Fever ? You can play something perfectly until you push that button that says "Record".
Recording yourself can be quite a problem. It's a lot harder than having a studio engineer controlling it for you. You start the recording, then get back to your seat and pick up your Dobro, or seat yourself in front of your pedal steel, and you've immediately interrupted your work flow. I guess the best thing is to just leave the recording on and keep playing it until you get it down right, but with the space an 8-channel recording takes up you run out of space before that happens.
The time wasn't completely wasted, though. I came up with some new arrangement ideas, which will sound better, so I'll have another attempt next weekend.  No good recording in the evenings during the week: after a mentally-hard day at work, followed by a commute across the Bay Bridge, I'm too exhausted.
Now let's hear your experiences of recording yourself... |
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Ron Anderson
From:
Keystone Colorado, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 5:53 pm
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Hi.
You might consider Reaper recording software.
You can beat the red light heebie jeebies with multiple takes and cut and paste the good stuff into a decent mistake free take.
Last edited by Ron Anderson on 16 Jan 2011 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2011 6:04 pm
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Hi Alan. Yes I have recorded before and want to do it again. I have a Cakewalk program, that gives me 8 channels. Yes I screw up a lot. and might have to do a track over many times, and always screw up something. I start with track 1. I do a intro on my steel. Thats track 1. put track 1 into playback, and track 2 into record. Listen to teack 1 on my headphones, and when the intro is done, I start rhythm guitar, and sing the song. When it comes to the bridge's, I just play rhythm, and think the tune in my head. Then put track 1, and 2 on playback, and track 3 on record. Play the steel on track 3, while listening to track 1, and 2. Then do the same thing with track 4, playing bass. Track 5, I use for harmony, or some other instrument. When I screw up a track, I just delete it, and do that track over. What is already done, on the previous tracks are not damaged. I had about 10 songs recorded, and my hard drive took a dump. Lost them all, and someday I will start over. Very time consuming, when I screw up. It only happens when the RECORD buttin is pushed. Good luck. Ronnie
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 2:16 am
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| I use Logic Pro and loop the tune. It puts the continuous take onto separate tracks each cycle and then it's just a matter of auditioning, editing and repeating (in my case ad infinitum) |
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Ray McCarthy
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 2:51 am
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I have a little Tascam "Pocket Studio" 4-track machine and I've been having fun first putting commercial recordings that did not have steel in them  on tracks 1 & 2. Then I make up sreel parts and record them on track 3, then a different arrangement on track 4. (lots of re-takes)Then I pick the best parts from each and make a stereo master and upload it to I-tunes. This way I'm "playing with the pros" and it's a good way to sharpen your intonation, creativity etc.
I recently made a demo CD of such songs and and gave it to a local recording studio when thay said they might make use of steel at some point.
Haven't heard anything yet  |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 3:30 am
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| Ray McCarthy wrote: |
| Then I pick the best parts from each and make a stereo master and upload it to I-tunes. |
Interesting Ray, but by saying "Upload" you give the impression that you upload the file to iTunes the company, when in fact, you TRANSFER the file to the program iTunes on your computer.
Upload usually means to send via the internet to some specific location.
Only trying to help with the ambiguous terminology used.. |
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Ray McCarthy
From:
New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 3:57 am
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| Thanks Bas, I'm still a little computer illiterate. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 4:03 am
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No criticism intended, just help. After all, sometimes if we get the terminology wrong strange things can happen..
In recording it's a minefield, betwixt the inputs outputs, send and returns, there's a lot that can and should happen, sometimes not of our own volition.. |
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Barry Hyman
From:
upstate New York, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 5:49 am
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I have been making recordings, both at home and in professional studios, since the seventies, and have had my own independent label putting out albums since 1983. I have done thousands of hours of recording, and now have many cds online at cdbaby and i-tunes. (Under the band names Natural History, King Happy, and Zuela as well as Barry Hyman.)
But nothing ever frazzled me as much as this damn project. Maybe it's because pedal steel is in effect my second instrument -- I've been playing it a lot for almost forty years, but always described myself as a guitar player who dabbled on pedal steel, and I didn't get really REALLY serious about playing pedal steel until four years ago. So while I have been making guitar recordings that I am completely satisfied with for decades, most of them on the first take, I did, literally, about 300 takes of the song I submitted to bOb, and I am still quite unsure whether I like it.
I just couldn't stop thinking about all you really good pedal steel players who would be listening to this and laughing at my odd style and intonation glitches. So I would do take after take, making stupid mistakes time after time, pounding on "undo recording" until I thought the laptop would break, sweating and cursing and totally unable to relax and enjoy. I spent about ten hours total trying to record the one psg track, and then finally I said screw it, this is the best I can do, and sent one in. But now I am terrified of the release of this cd -- that my track will be the weakest thing on it and that I'll have to go hang myself after listening to it. Oh well -- that's the artistic life -- two parts joy, one part inspiration, and five parts mental breakdown...   
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I give music lessons on several different instruments in Cambridge, NY (between Bennington, VT and Albany, NY). But my true love is pedal steel. I've been obsessed with steel since 1972; don't know anything I'd rather talk about... www.barryhyman.com |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 7:04 am
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I've been finding that doing each track as a complete performance in one take almost always sounds better than cutting and pasting or punching in.But that can involve many,many,many takes,and while acting as my own producer/engineer (as well as my own session guys) saves on overhead,they're ferociously and most un-diplomatically critical of every player on the session.
And I can't fire them.Or the steel player.  |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 7:08 am
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I find that if I didn't get it in the first 3 or 4 takes, it just gets worse from there. I leave it and come back later...
_________________
Lost Pines Studio
"I'm nuts about bolts" |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 8:18 am
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| We may, or may not, play worse when the red light is on. But it seems worse because we are punctiliouser. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 8:58 am
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You're stretching the dictionary, Earnest!
Barry, the Forum Showcase CD includes tracks in a wide variety of styles and skill levels. A few are from beginners who are just in love with the sound of the instrument and a few are from seasoned pros with full studio band backup. But most are from intermediate players like you and me, who each have their own style of playing and their own approach to songwriting. The idea of the project is to share, not to judge.
You needn't worry - your track fits right in. It's different, but there are a lot of "different's".
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 9:08 am
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| I'm surprised to hear how many try to record in one continuous take. After all, don't the pros in the studios "cut and paste so to speak", until they come up with a decent track? I've recorded tracks in one take and I know how hard it is to get it right the first time. The "punch in" technique also works great. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 9:59 am
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I recorded all my CDs in my home studio (two 16 track analog decks synced together,) in bits and pieces, sometimes one note at a time, and edited everything together after all the tracks were laid down.
The editing and programing if the computer mixes was far more difficult and time consuming than the actually laying down of the tracks.
I used a drum machine for click tracks, and added live drums later. Drum machines are very goods for that, but IMHO they are no substitute for a real human being, and do not belong in the final recording.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 11:45 am Re: Experiences Recording Yourself
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| Alan Brookes wrote: |
Does anyone else suffer from Recording Fever ? You can play something perfectly until you push that button that says "Record".
Now let's hear your experiences of recording yourself... |
From Jeff Newman's article entitled "The Pucker Factor".
"Pucker Factor is most notable with players who do recording work. These people have trouble playing anything when they know the red light is on, when they can normally play the same thing with ease when it is not".
Regarding the frustration of getting to your steel guitar after hitting the record button:
I've been using Cakewalk's Sonar software along with a wireless computer keyboard.
Before sitting down at my pedal steel, I arm the track that I would like to record on, then sit down at my steel guitar and hit the "R" button on the keyboard. It makes recording a little easier.
Here's a link to the entire Jeff Newman article for anyone who might not have read it yet:
http://www.jeffran.com/articles.php?content=pucker
Rick |
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Rick Schacter
From:
Portland, Or.
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 11:47 am
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| Mike Perlowin wrote: |
I used a drum machine for click tracks, and added live drums later. Drum machines are very goods for that, but IMHO they are no substitute for a real human being, and do not belong in the final recording. |
FWIW, I agree completely.
Rick
Edit- I suppose there are some exceptions.
Phil Collins used both for example.
Last edited by Rick Schacter on 17 Jan 2011 1:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dave Hopping
From:
Aurora, Colorado
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 12:37 pm
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| Andy Sandoval wrote: |
| I'm surprised to hear how many try to record in one continuous take. After all, don't the pros in the studios "cut and paste so to speak", until they come up with a decent track? I've recorded tracks in one take and I know how hard it is to get it right the first time. The "punch in" technique also works great. |
Andy's right.There's a lot of cut and paste and other electronic wizardry done on material intended for public consumption;the technology is there to be used and the public expects-and accepts-aural "wow factor" the same way it expects to see the impossible in movies like "Avatar" and (my guilty-pleasure fave)"Starship Troopers".
I had an aural "aha" moment not long ago watching a Youtube of Les and Mary on a live show from the mid-50s.They demonstrated vocal overdubbing to whoever the host was,and Mary's initial vocal was the first time I'd heard her voice by itself.I was just knocked out with its beauty and power.That girl could sing! It seems to me that all the enhancements can make a performance sound perfect,but in making the performer sound slightly more than human,the effect is to make the performance itself sound slightly less than human.
OK,that's a musician's quibble,and the intended audience for nearly all musical performance is the public,rather than the musician.But of the material I've recorded at home for my own pleasure,I generally like the one-take tracks better.
I just wish I could get that"one take" on the first take,rather than the fiftieth.My producer,Dave Hopping,agrees |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 1:51 pm
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| I was up to about take 90 when I threw in the towel and said that's the best I can do (on the tune I submitted). It's certainly humbling to record knowing it will be distributed to an appreciative, but critical audience. I also think it makes one a better musician. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 1:52 pm
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| Andy Sandoval wrote: |
| I'm surprised to hear how many try to record in one continuous take. After all, don't the pros in the studios "cut and paste so to speak", until they come up with a decent track? I've recorded tracks in one take and I know how hard it is to get it right the first time. The "punch in" technique also works great. |
This recording of my classical music trio: http://www.etsga.org/mikeperlowin_Bourree.mp3 was recorded live in concert, obviously in one take with no overdubs. This recording will appear on the Forum members CD. (I didn't compose the original tune, but I did write this arraignment.)
This is just the opposite from the way my studio CDs were produced. I view the difference between a live recording and a meticulously recorded studio recording as the same as the difference between a photograph and a painting. We can appreciate both. One does not negate the other.
BTW I'm embarrassed to admit it, but liked Starship Troopers too.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 3:26 pm
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So the goalposts have changed ?
That must mean that we can submit anything that's "Trad" or out of copyright, as long as it's our own arrangement !!
I understood that it HAD to be an original composition by the player.. |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 3:59 pm
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| basilh wrote: |
So the goalposts have changed ?
That must mean that we can submit anything that's "Trad" or out of copyright, as long as it's our own arrangement !!
I understood that it HAD to be an original composition by the player.. |
b0b is making a special exception for me because my submission is an original arrangement of the composition, that I spent several weeks painstakingly writing out note for note. b0b wants to showcase our imaginations and creativity, as well as our playing. This piece showcases mine as much as if I had written the tune.
He also wants to avoid familiar songs like Danny Boy or A Way To Survive. This also qualifies. In all likelihood none of you have the piece before (unless you heard my version on Charles Tilly's web site.)
Besides which, having made 3 CDs, I've gotten the bug out of my system, and dismantled my studio, and will soon be selling off all the components. I no longer have the capacity to do any more recording.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 4:17 pm
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Not griping Mike.. BUT .. How long do you think it took me to score write out the arrangement of this for the RTE concert orchestra ?
And surely if the length of time it took to write an arrangement is the yardstick, then the LEAST proficient of us who took the longest to work it out and write it would qualify ?
Click here
A classical piece written in 1903 by Hugo Emil AlfvΓ©n |
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Mike Perlowin
From:
Los Angeles CA
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Posted 17 Jan 2011 6:50 pm
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Nice arrangement Basil.
I don't mean to step on anybody's toes, and I apologize to any who may be offended. b0b and I had only 2 options. Either I not participate in the CD, or I submit this piece, which as I said, is truly the product of my musical imagination, and genuinely represents the current state of my musical thinking.
Neither b0b nor I think the CD would be better if the piece was excluded. Now please let's not make this into a big issue and get back on topic to the question of different peoples experience in the art of recording.
_________________
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin |
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