How good are vintage Fender pedal steels?

Nicholai Steindler · From: New York, USA

Hi,

I've been wanting to start playing pedal, and for no other reason other then I really like vintage guitars I have been wanting a Fender 400 800 or 1000. I can't remember if there are any 8 string 400's I think I've seen one.

Anyways, are these decent instruments? If not, can someone suggest something relatively similar in price that is better?

Thanks!

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

they are good instruments with a unique tone and a cool look, but many will suggest you get a more modern guitar for your first pedal steel.
a modern guitar will have knee levers (you will want these)and ten strings (or more). The vintage fenders often also require a little mechancial aptitude to get into condition if they havent been used in some time and when yo first get your guitar , you dont want to spend a week fixing it, you want to start learning how to play it.

Im sure others will elaborate and or have differing opinions, but I would suggest a modern guitar with three pedals and 4 knee levers for a first pedal steel.

Brett Lanier · From: Madison, TN

I played a fender 1000 for over two years before I tried anything else. It was a great learning experience. I discovered a lot of the E9 tuning through constantly changing the copedents of the A6 neck, in fact I had all 8 pedals going to one neck, and had one chromatic string on A6, making it more like reverse E9. Unlike most guitars, you can switch around pedals in a matter of minutes and without any extra materials.

Having said that, I also wouldn't recommend someone starting out on one of these. I remember four long nights of pulling the guitar apart and trying to get the changer back in just because I loosened a tuning screw too much. You have to be willing to go over the guitar every time you set it up, to make sure everything is tight and working properly. I like the way the cable system plays, but I don't think that it was ever perfected. Two problems that I saw where that you can't adjust the spring tension, and the tuning screw takes all the extra pressure from the pedal. The short scale length is no good too.

But then again, they're not too pricey, and if you're determined enough you can get one playing very well.

Nicholai Steindler · From: New York, USA

Thanks everyone. very interesting. I suspected there were problems since they were so cheap.

I can't lie, the price is an attractive point. I see them going for 600-800$ a good bit. Is there anything under $1000 worth playing?

Nathan Sarver · From: Washington State, USA

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

oops, i misread the intial post a bit.

Nathan above me is spot on.

Michael Lee Allen · From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois

Deleted.
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"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

My first real pedal steel was a Fender 2000. I still have it. It plays smoother than anything else I've ever played, and it's held up very well. It has 4 knee levers, that I installed, since they were not offered when brand new. I can play new music, old music, and anything in-between. The copedent I use on the E9 neck is pure standard Emmons. In fact there is no mechanical limitations to the style of music one can play on the Fender,(Of course I, myself have limitations as a player). But there is the ability to change your copedent "at will" within minutes. The only draw backs are the weight. It is incredibly heavy. There is also the occasional cable breakage, and maintenance. But all-in-all it was worth it to me, without a doubt. If the Fender does not have knee levers on it when you buy it, you or a half way decent steel mechanic should be able to do the job easily enough. Some people don't want to put knee levers on the Fenders,if they are in good asthetic condition, because it could detract from the "antique value". My 2000 is an old war horse that has a lot of non- original parts on it, so it is ideal for hot rodding it with add ons.
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Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord,

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

See Sneaky Pete.....

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

It can depend on what style of Steel you want to play. Early Fender Pedal Steels were great for playing Classic Western Swing, Hawiian, and Classic Pop. The Fender Pedal Steels let you expand chords and phrases, get Diminishes and Augmenteds, etc. with all the Notes. They are not as good for E9th playing where the pedals are used to create the melody on their own with minimal bar movement. Speedy West was a good example of primarily being a non-pedal player who added pedals to enhance his own style and not change to the Nashville style.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Go here to find out more about Fenders. I love them.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Nicholai Steindler · From: New York, USA

This is a good discussion! Thanks everyone.

Um, don't kick me off the board, I have little interest in playing country. I have huge respect for it, but I can't think of the last time I actually listened to modern country. New riders of the purple sage, sure, bluegrass, sure. Old school country, sure.

Me, I'm going to play mostly rock, blues, jazz and traditional music. I feel limited on my lapsteel, so I bought a double 8 gibson console, and it's still not quite me yet. I need more chords. Slants are fine, but I like more than two or three notes available.

I'm going to adapt it to my playing. I think that nails it best. I'm not good. I just do my thing. Mr. Green

Joe Gretz · From: Washington, DC, USA

Good points raised. I have a 1000, and I also wouldn't recommend it as a first instrument with the Western Swing caveat as an exception...jazz too.

Listen to Cindy Cashdollar on her Fender console steels and you might decide that you don't need pedals after all! Smile

I have an SD10 for E9, and use my Fender for "other stuff". I still haven't quit experimenting with copedents, but the back neck is FACEGACE and seldom do I touch a pedal on it.

Another thing about the Fenders is the pedal action is very different from the modern steels, not as much "expression" available...

I love mine, but it's kind of a "niche" instrument.

YMMV

Good luck!!!

Joe

"Edit"-In response to Fred Glave's post below, I suppose I should have said that the above is my opinion...I stated it as though it were fact. Smile

YMMV
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Dattebayo!!!

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

If you like vintage instruments and have no interest in playing country then a Fender could be a good choice for you. Check out that Fender forum.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Wish i could find a Fender 1000 in good shape from a dealer fo 6 or $8oo.Thats what i played over seas years ago Would still have it if an airliner had landed before unloaing it one time.Any how,thats what i put on the insurnce claim.
I would want it for the c6th use only.
I read on a thread some where about some one wanting info about filing the changers to make the pedals work easy.Yes it is easy to do.Curly Chalker filed his.He showed some one how to do it and the guy then showed me.Tracy

Nicholai Steindler · From: New York, USA

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

Tracy, that was me wanting to know. Any chance you could explain what he did?
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Nicholai Steindler · From: New York, USA

Could someone suggest more guitars in this price range more modern besides the Carter Starter, which I've seen a few people say was the worst thing they ever bought. Mr. Green

Silly question, but I guess you guys mean that on a modern guitar the scales line up better with the pedals? Or people hit the pedals to change notes? or both? Hmm so much reading to do.

(Edit: just realized Sneaky Pete was the FBB guitar player. He was amazing.)

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

I understand. It makes sense. Might be good to file the slots on the plate underneath as well.

Thanks Tracy!
Dave
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Larry Jamieson · From: Walton, NY USA

There are two nice, student model guitars on the Forum in the Instruments for Sale section right now, a Zum Stage One and a GFI. Either would be a good learning instrument that you could sit down and play without problems, they have knee levers, and the cost is $700 or $800.
If you prefer a vintage instrument, watch for older MSA or BMI guitars in good condition. These often sell for $1,000 or less, and are also good, trouble free instruments. Have fun!
Larry J.

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

I have to respectfully disagree with Billy Tonneson and Joe Gretz's comment that the Fender pedals are not good for E9 and are somehow unable to produce the same feeling and movement as a modern steel. Confused

I think there are plenty of examples of artists and recordings that would prove otherwise. The tunings, copedents, and basic operation of the Fender steel from the player's standpoint is identical to the modern steel guitar. The difference is in the mechanics. In other words the way the the changer is activated. This does not make the pedals do their job differently. The mechanics of the Fender require more maintenance, and the guitar is very heavy. When transporting the Fender,it may need more time to set up and re-tune. Other than that, it's just as much of a pedal steel, as any other pedal steel. I hope some other Fender players chime in here and provide more information. Also, go to the Fender forum. If price is the main consideration, there are student models out there that can give you what you want and need immediately at a similar, or less cost. They may also need less attention from you than a Fender.
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Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord,

Michael Lee Allen · From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois

Deleted.
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"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."

Fred Glave · From: McHenry, Illinois, USA

Installing knees on a Fender only requires some cable, wire for loops, and any lever mechanism. I've seen nice levers on Fenders, but I've also seen barn hinges, angle iron and a loop bracket. There is usually some nice looking levers sold on ebay very cheap. If you have the levers, the Fender with double raises/lowers is everything a modern steel is.
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Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord,

Michael Lee Allen · From: Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois

Deleted.
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"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."

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