Pickup study

Danny Hall · From: Nevada, USA

This is a wing dinger question I think. I did a search and couldn't find what I was looking for.

I'm new and have an MSA Classic SS on the way.

I'm very partial to single coil pups in my 6 string life, though I do have a couple of humbucker equipped guitars.

OK, single coil pups are noisy but have what I would call a clear bell like tone to them. Humbuckers tend to be a bit muddy. Just opinion here.

Has anybody done a study of several pups in the same guitar and the same recording setup with the same player etc? I know one fellow who did this for a about 10 different sets of strings on an acoustic forum I belong to. He also did a similar study for bridge pins. Ambitious cuss.

It's a ton of work but it would be nice if there was a reference out there that a guy could refer to.

Anyway, I'd go for the quiet of a dual coil pickup (depending of course on what my guitar sounds like stock) if somebody knows of one. Aparently Alumatone (lace) is quiet and Carter pushes them but I'd sure like to hear a general discussion of relative pickup tone here. I've talked with Bob Hoffnar too.

I've got a set of GFS in my Tele parts caster but I may go for a pair of Bill Lawrence to put in there.

b0b: I maybe shoulda stuck this in Electronics. Sorry.
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Bill Dobkins · From: Rolla Missouri, USA

Danny, I've not done a study but if your looking for that Tele Bell tone go with a BL705.
BD
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Geoff Marshall · From: North Lincolnshire U,K.

The Carter web site have the very comparative study that you seek but it is extremely well Hidden.

There is link to the Carter site from the forum under manufacturers, then go to:-

PURCHASING INFORMATION, then to:-

HOW TO ORDER page, scroll down to:-

STANDARD AND OPTIONAL PICKUPS,then to:-

THE CARTER PICKUP COMPARISON SOUND FILES.

I hope this helps. G. Surprised

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

I have a GFI ultra that came with stock GFI II humbuckers. They were very quiet but the lows where dull and got washed out by the band I play with easily. I switched the c6 out with an old pickup from an Emmons, A single coil around 19 Ohms, and the e9 with a single coil pickup out of a Zum at about 18.5 ohms. Not sure what the make of these are, but the old Emmons has a small white line around it and smallish poles. The Zum has a thicker white line and larger poles (truetone?).

With the single coils, I have much more of a bell like tone versus the duller humbucker tone I had before. I actually use less volume(gain) on the amp due to the increased clarity. Each string seems to stand out better as well, so licks like unison counterpoints are more pronounced and my lows are twangy and very present. In my opinion a very great improvement over my previous situation, despite the fact that my 18ohm pickup will buzz in dirty electricity.

As far as the alumitone by lace I hear they have single coil sound without the buzz.
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Dwight Lewis · From: Huntsville, Alabama

I would go with a Truetone single from Wallace. They are pretty quiet and sing like a bell from top string to bottom. Clear and concise. My opinion.

Dwight
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Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

Danny,
One thing about steel that makes the noise aspect of single coils slightly less annoying than six strings is that most of us very rarely play with the volume pedal wide open so unless you have a gang of effects or are playing in a place with dodgy electrics single coil aren't quite as hard to live with. The single coils in that era of MSA weren't too bad for tone and unlike when I was playing there are many choices out there these days for both single and dual coil pickups. Enjoy the ride!

Cartwright Thompson · Posted 18 Jan 2010 4:52 am

If you're "new", you've got much more important things to think about than pickups. Just learn to play it like it is for a while. The stock ss pickups were fine.

Roger Francis · From: kokomo,Indiana, USA

After numerous humbuckers on my guitar, and an emmons SC i switched to the alumitone and found the best of both worlds, very quiet with the SC sound, i realy like the lumies.

Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

Danny Hall · From: Nevada, USA

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I agree w/ Cartwright. When I first started playing, I was taking lessons from Greg Lasser (a great S.F steel player and mechanic). He was manufacturing e custom gauged rollers. When I asked him if I needed to buy a set for my ZB, he said not now....you'll know it when you need them.

It was another year or so by the time I felt the need for them, but by that time I had already become obsessed with tone, sold the ZB and bought an Emmons.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Get an experienced player that you like to play your gear and listen to it that way. That way you can know if it has the tone you want. It takes time to develop tone control. You may have the equipment that will make the sound you want, but until your technique develops you will not be able to milk out the potential tone of the instrument. You will be surprised how much your tone is due to technique; where you pick on the strings, bar pressure, pick attack, volume pedal control etc. all play a role in the tone you get.

That link on the carter page for different pickups in the same guitar tho is what you are looking for.

http://www.steelguitar.com/resource/pickups/pusounds.htm
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Danny Hall · From: Nevada, USA

I just spent half an hour on the table of pickups on Carters site.

I'm NOT going to rush out and buy one. I agree with all you who warn against it. In fact I bought the used MSA rather than a new Rains because of a converstation I had with one of our number here who said basically "how is the heck could you possibly know what you want when you have never even sat in front of one? By something serviceable and get pickin'!! You'll know later"

So that said. I like the Alumatone best. That REALLY surprised me. I have never liked their strat pups but this is new technology.

Second was the E-66. No surprise I suppose. Pretty standard tone.

Third was harder. It was between the Wallace single coil and the Tonealigner. The low end on the Wallace is really sweet on that cut, but it's not as balanced across the board as the others. The Tonealigner on the other hand has a bit too much compression down low. I didn't find it objectionable though on the higher strings.

Pretty good workup though. The balance across the strings and individual separation I think are the most important aspects of any pickup. The alumatone had no honk at all. You'ld have to add that at the board if you wanted it. Very Happy

I had hoped I would like the BL better. Perhaps the 105 or 110 is a better sounding pup. That xk thing is a buzzer. To Me! Just sayin'
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Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Thats interesting. When I became obsessed with tone I sold my Emmons and bought a ZB. Never looked back.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

The pickup will only do so much, aside from technique a pickup in a MSA will sound different than the same one in a Carter. People seem to love the alumitone though.

read through this

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=168333&highlight=

and

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=166935&highlight=

and

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=173674&highlight=

On top of all that I have had to experiment with all sorts of strings before I settled on the ones I like.

In my opinion the guys around here who play MSA guitars from all sorts of different time periods have really good prominent thick tone that cuts through nicely on stage.

Good luck!
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Danny Hall · From: Nevada, USA

Steve:
Thanks for the links. I worked my tortured way through all three. Semantic arguments aside, not to mention just plain WRONG vocabulary, I found myself reading patiently for another P Franklin comment. The man obviously has a good set of ears on him.

I've run into the Line 6 sounds like a '64 Deluxe Reverb guy on other forums.

Totally unrelated analogy from a pilot. In WWII Chuck Yeager lead his squadron into battle and saved many of the lives of his men based entirely on his superior eyesight. He simply could see things that others found invisible.

I sure wish folks would learn to use such phrases as "To Me" and "What I hear" etc. It sure would make things less tense.

Thanks for the links. Lot's to consider and think about.

Now about those strings........ Very Happy

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Rick Winfield · From: Pickin' beneath the Palmettos

Many would not agree, but, I prefer the GeorgeL' "SS" over the E66, on my Carter.(2008)
If I were to replace them, which I'm not, I'd go with the "new" Alumitones. But... how they sond on an MSA, I don't know.
You've received good advice with: being new, tone is the least of your worries. Get down some basics first, then "fine tune" your sound.
You mentioned Line 6. I bought a Line 6 Spyder III, with a 12" Celestion, 30 watts, for around $100. Great "bedroom" practice amp, with enough volume to hold a jam. NICE, BUT... not the optimim "tone machime", for my tastes.
Rick

Barry Hyman · From: upstate New York, USA

I love my E-66. It purrs, growls, sings, howls, moans, and whispers. (It walks, talks, and crawls on its belly like a reptile!) Sharp as a single coil with no hum, but it can also be mellow and muted and very smooth...
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Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

I had an MSA just like the one your talking about except it was a D-10 model. The MSA pickup, SS, Supersustain was designed for western swing with a real bassy tone for C6th. I believe I read that in an article by Jeff Newman years ago. I've found with pickups, a player has to basically match the guitar with the pu that sounds best to him. Different guitars are built and designed slightly different. A pu may sound great in one guitar and not so good in another one. For the MSA I had, I replaced the MSA pu, if I remember correctly with a George 10-1, 19.5 ohms. I used the 10-1 until I sold the guitar. The best sounding pu lately, I've found is the Bl-705. It runs a real close race with the Wallace Truetone, which is a great and very clean pu.

Ulf Edlund · From: Umeå, Sweden

As stated above, "don't fix it if it ain't broken".
However, i have owned a Classic SS and they are wonderful, very very good guitars!
I tested acouple of different pickups on it and i liked the BL710 and GL's E66 best. I tried 17.9k Truetones but they didn't sound their best on that guitar. The TT's should be lighter wound on a Classic SS I.M.O.
They sound best with bright pickups.
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