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Topic: Information about this 1950's Gibson doubleneck Console |
Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 6 Jan 2010 8:23 pm |
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Hi, some info was edited because I was giving out incorrect info. This thread was originally posted as "Information about this 1960's Gibson doubleneck console, it is not a sixties guitar! More information next page."
I picked up this Gibson console. It has a few bumps and nicks, you can tell its been played (tone bar marks pick marks etc) there's a little bit of crazing but overall the body and tuners seem like they are pretty decent for a 50 year old guitar.
The metal is not clean,it is pretty dirty or tarnished. The tuners are a little tarnished here and there, and I'm not sure if it will clean up.
One pickups screw seems a little off. Can I remove it and re insert it safely? The tone knob is stiff it barely turns, both seem to work and so do the pickups and all the other buttons seem to do what they are supposed to.
Long story short;
1. What is this guitars value? I want to know if I am getting ripped. I think it looks ok to me, but I don't know anything about guitars really, and was expecting a slightly better in shape machine from the description of it. Not that it isn't amazing. It sat not selling for some time so I am wary.
2. How do I go about restoring it to its original glory wihtout destroying the value? Do i just play it as is? Can I remove and reinsert the pick up screw at least? Will anything clean the metal without ruining it?
3. If anyone has any info about the guitar in general, or the two buttons in the middle, the black one I'm not sure what it is doing, something happens, red one seems to be a cut out.
Thanks!
Last edited by Nicholai Steindler on 27 Jan 2010 9:38 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Ron Simpson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 3:42 am
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| One button will momentarily turn the volume off when pushed. The other button will momentarily reverse the tone setting when pushed. |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 9:49 am
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Thanks!
Sigh, just found a strip of peeling paint under the bridge/bridgeguard. Fairly sure it is not warped. The plastic under it is too thin to matter.
Is there any point in me not replacing the pot that is going if I have to and having hte paint reapplied/touched up? I know there are some purists, no idea how far it goes. I am getting conflicting info talking to luthiers and searching the web. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 11:49 am
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I'd try some tuner clean and lube on the pot first. Always nice if you can keep the original. Spray it in, and work the pot. Not sure about the pickup screw. Ya don't wanna mess it up. Me? I'd send it to Jason Lollar. Probably cost next to nothing.
I think the guitar appears to be in pretty good shape, but it's hard to tell much about the finish from the pics. Save it if you can. |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 7 Jan 2010 8:23 pm
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Thanks for the info, I will look up Mr. Lollar.
Me and my girlfriend just spent 4 hours cleaning the pickups with q-tips and naptha. They appear to be stainless steel, cleaned up amazingly. Maybe too nicely. Probably should have left more patina but it was hard to stop seeing how they were coming around perfectly. Wish I had good shots of this guitar in mint so I don't go too far.
It is an amazing guitar in good condition, I just got to play it for the first time. It sounds like a steel should. Still need to check one necks pickup out. Could probably use pro setting it up right to get the sound perfect. The black button isnt working right either, a cleaning might fix it up, its scratchy.
Oh well, i suspect this guitar will be exactly what I want it to be someday. Just is going to need some re-applying of laquer, a bit of paint and love. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 2:21 am
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| The metalwork is Nickel plated, not stainless steel. |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 8:57 am
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Definitely! The pickups however are brushed stainless. I would bet my life on it almost. Clear lines in them,and they oxidize/cleanup like stainless does. I will post photos. I think this makes them one of the early runs of humbuckers. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. The long poles dates them as early too I think.
Here's an article mentioning gibson made some around this time.
http://www.provide.net/~cfh/paf.html
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| Early P.A.F. pickups as used on the 1956 lapsteels and 1957 Les Paul Standard had brushed stainless steel pickup covers (brushed to make them look nickel plated). This quickly changed to brass covers with a nickel plating. If the cover was gold, the brass was first nickel plated and then gold plated. Early PAFs also have four brass bobbin attachment screws, instead of steel screws. Also the early PAFs with stainless covers often did *not* have a PAF decal on the bottom (so some 1957 Gibson guitars will have unlabeled PAF pickups with brushed stainless covers). |
Seth Lover states they used what they had at hand, so. I don't know.
http://www.provide.net/~cfh/seth.html
Pretty sure I read this model was introduced 1956 or so.
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 11:12 am
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Well what dya know.. the pickups on my MultiHarp are Identical and they're Nickel..
_________________
Steelies do it without fretting
CLICK THIS to view my tone bars and buy——>
Last edited by basilh on 28 Jan 2010 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 12:34 pm
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DELETED
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 27 Feb 2011 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 12:45 pm
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So as an aficionado of Gibson pickups, you're saying that the pickups on my Multiharp are Paf's and Stainless cases ?
So you're also confirming that the poster is correct in stating that the pickups on his guitar are Brushed stainless and not Nickel plated ?
I bow to you superior knowledge and am always willing to learn. |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 1:11 pm
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DELETED
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 27 Feb 2011 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pete Honychurch
From:
British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 1:21 pm
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| I used to own one of these consoles. Sounded nice but I think Gibson wins the award for the ugliest steels ever with these ones. |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 3:17 pm
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Well Basil, yes, those look like the same pickups. i have no idea whats under your grime, but I suspect if they are the same as mine, they are stainless. I thought mine were nickle until the grime melted off. No one brushes nickle to make it look better. I didn't put those lines on my pickups. I polish in circles. Cool guitar you have there, certainly more attractive than mine!
I didn't say the catalogue called them PAF's. I said that the article I posted a link to said that some stainless PAF humbuckers were made for steel guitar, then I posted Seth Lovers interview which states probably only a few hundred humbuckers were ever made for steel guitar.
I don't think Gibson would have done another small run of humbuckers when Mr. Lover states normal production numbers for Gibson items were in the thousands? If they made a few hundred to a thousand humbuckers, then those were probably the humbuckers that went into ALL of the humbucker consoles. Really doing another run with long poles doesn't make sense either. If I remember right.
The PAF pickups were still being found regularly in 1962 on Les Pauls, a much more popular model. Also, the long pole pieces were phased out almost immediately. Read the article on PAF's and read Seth's interview.
This is all skipping the fact that I work with stainless steel a good bit for a living and I am pretty sure I know what I am looking at. They are stainless on my guitar.
Speaking of which, I would like to buy an extra one of these pickups or two if anyone has one. I don't care if they are nickle or stainless! I am interested in any replacement parts for this guitar.
Last edited by Nicholai Steindler on 9 Jan 2010 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 3:27 pm
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Great argument. Can you find anywhere where gibson made brushed nickle plate anything in the fifites?
All I can find is brushed stainless to imitate nickle or nickle plate non brushed or gold plated nickle. They seem to be made by a machine shop in kallamazoo, I don't think there was a ton of variation. Especially since the stainless was brushed to make it look like nickel at the same time, I don't think the nickel was brushed to look like stainless. That doesn't make sense, obviously nickel was more desirable.
Those two articles on humbuckers cover it pretty well. I'm just repeating the info they set down. They say nickel plate or brushed stainless.
Last edited by Nicholai Steindler on 9 Jan 2010 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 3:32 pm
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NS,
I was merely responding to this comment;
"No one brushes nickle to make it look better."
I've certainly never known Gibson to use a brushed nickel finish. At least, not that I'm aware of. The metal parts on my '39 Gibson D-7 are all bright Nickel, which I actually prefer over chrome. It has a warmer sheen. |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 3:35 pm
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I say silly things sometimes.  |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2010 3:43 pm
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| Me too! Ya got a nice guitar there! |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2010 10:18 am
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Thanks! I got to play her last night finally. Sounds amazing. Very keyboard like at points, like nothing I've ever heard. Very happy with my purchase now.
So, is there a way to find out about my pickups for sure without using shaky evidence from websites to guess? I'm pretty sure mine are steel, but I don't want to put out bad info.
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2010 9:40 am
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I sent an email to Gruhn guitars about getting some repairs done and advice, and they were awesome enough to reply. I noticed the bridges had both sunk into the body 1mm towards the pickup.
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It doesn’t sound like much work is needed at all on the C-530. Strange that the bridge has sunk that far into the body, tampering with it would likely only do harm and it causes no problem being slightly lower. The tuners could probably use some cleaning and oil, they are easy to disassemble and address without causing harm. If the pickups are loose the holes may be stripped but that seems unlikely. Cleaning the electronics is easily done with some Deoxit D5, this will get the pots moving again – not sure about the pickup screws without seeing them. Strings (gauges) on steel guitars have not changed since the 1930s, the nut should accommodate properly tuned strings (E9, C6, etc..) unless it has been modified or replaced at some point – can’t see it in the picture.The pickup design on your C-530 is based on the PAF design, however, it is different in the covers and 8 (x2) adjustable poles. They are not what is referred to as a “PAF” in the vintage electric market, more along the lines of Gibson’s C-530 at the time as opposed to for an electric guitar.
That being said it is probably worth in the neighborhood of $1,200 |
Which makes me happy. He didn't say if they were stainless though, he didn't say they weren't. Lol. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 22 Jan 2010 10:52 am
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irrelevant (Apparently)
All that minutia aside, the guitar looks really stunning and probably has an incredible tone to match its looks.. Congrats on a superb instrument.
Last edited by basilh on 28 Jan 2010 5:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2010 11:31 am
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Thanks Basil!
No, they are not the same color as the bridge and the electronics plate, nor does it have the same kind of corrosion. I will try to take photos showing it better later.
Gruhn told me to leave the nut alone, I was debating having it setup and notched to fit strings better, but I won't go against them. They said thats how it should be, I was going to have a new nut made but why bother messing with it I guess. So touchy with a vintage beast.
I am a bit disabled and I have to push too hard on it for me to play this one, I might try to trade it for something else. I'm having probelms finding someone to set it up right around here. I just want to take the instrument out of the box and play it already. Sigh. It does sound good though. We will see what I do! |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 22 Jan 2010 11:36 am
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It's unusual that the strings don't lie relatively flat ?
You shouldn't have to "Push Too Hard".. What tunings and gauges are you using ? |
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Nicholai Steindler
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2010 11:44 am
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They are on a flat plane, but the big strings are slightly higher then the smaller (even notches), and the middle tension being kind of higher makes a bridge, best way I can describe it.
I tried the LT Zinn E7 C6 strings sold here and tuned them appropriately and really hated the feel. It might be me and my disability that makes it bad, it probably plays fine for anyone else.
Recommend some other strings?
My 6 string Rickenbacker felt similar but not as bad, it's nut has appropriate grooves. I put some light gauge strings on it and loved it.
Advice needed! I don't want to buy another guitar and have it be the same, waste time money, maybe end up with something worse. |
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