4KL or 5KL

Danny Hall · From: Nevada, USA

I notice that Carters come with 5 knees stock and Rains puts on 4. Does the Carter have an additonal feature or do they just do the same thing a different way?

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David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

Daniel...Some manufacturers have the 3&5 setup as standard, Carter being one of the first I believe. The majority however have the basic 3&4 as standard with the fifth lever (usually left knee vertical) as an option. The most frequent use for this lever is to lower the B's (strings 5&10)a half tone to Bb. What I find odd though, is that some builders include knee lever five as standard on a D-10 and as an option on an SD-10 or S-10 when it is normally installed on the E-9 changer ????

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

The basic model Zums' come standard with 8 and 5, or 3 and 5 !
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Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

Rains is quality. I sell the Rains S-10D with 3 & 4 or 3 & 5 for the same price. It's up to the player.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

For me, at least, four 'knees' on E9 are essential. I have to have the raise and lower of the E strings (on my left knee) and I lower both Bs to Bb on RKL, with RKR lowering 2 and 9.

After that it's all a bit whimsical - right now I raise my 6th a whole-step on my LKV, and I raise 1,2 and 7 on my LKL2. These two 'knees', however, get very little use in the heat of battle; those first four 'knees' (above) are central to everything I do on E9.

(By the way: My LKL2 is useful for getting a half-step raise on the 7th string - with pedals down it gives me what other guys get when lowering 6 and splitting the pull with the B pedal. With pedals down and LKL2 half-engaged, picking strings 10,9,8,7 and 6 gives me:

3,4,5,b7,1.)

I guess what I'm saying is that anything over four knee-levers is going beyond 'standard'. That's my view, anyway.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I really like what Roger states, he uses the B to Bb changes which is what the 5th lever is on the 3+5. The flexibility of having the 5 levers is paramount, you may not use them all today , but certainly tomorrow.

The X lever, B to Bb is a powerful tool for the E9th.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Though I have those other two 'knees', I really could live without them (they're not on my back-up LeGrande 111 D-10).

Once Jimmie Crawford opened my eyes to the potential of lowering the 9th string and all the 'doors' it opened for me, I knew that I had all I needed with my basic four levers. I was really tickled to see that wonderful E9 instruction video from Tommy White and that he was playing all that music with the same 3+4. (Nice to see that he played 'Day', too... Very Happy

)

Yes, Tony; I see the B-Bb lower as a powerful tool, too. I know the b5 can be found in other ways, but at the zero position one has all those available 'open' strings. There's a nice #11 to have there, too (lower the 5th, then: 9,8,7,6,5,4,1).

Okay, okay - I know this 9th string debate has raged on ad nauseum, but I'm like a politician who never misses an opportunity.... Whoa!

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bill Mayville · From: Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.

Roger has the RKL for the X lever.
Also that lever is the lowering of the C on the other neck.

All my new guitars were ordered without a vertical.

On a lever you feel completely different.
All students I have ever had,when playing my guitar ,they have changed there's over.

Jeff in a seminar showed us how to do that change.
I was talking to a manufacture a few years ago.He is also a player.He mentioned that he puts the X on a vertical,because everyone expects that,but on his guitar ,it is on the RKL.

Bill
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Danny Hall · From: Nevada, USA

OK, I've been on the road all day and had to get home to look at a copendent to figure out what's what. This has been most helpfull lads. I'm getting dumber by the minute. That's actually a VERY good sign.

Dan
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Bill

Actually my RKL on my 'main' guitar does not lower the C on C6th - it raises 6 and 10 to F and D respectively - but that's not pertinent to this discussion so it doesn't matter Smile

. I agree that the C lower would be normal on an 8+5 guitar.

Just a note about Tommy White and that old E9 video he did: That was when he was playing his black Emmons push/pull and his E9 set-up was just 3+4. According to b0b's notes on the Forum link he now has a LKV lowering the 6th. He also has pedal 4 raising 1 and 2.

The point being that, when he had that 'leaner' set-up (3+4 on the E9), it would seem that he chose the Bs to Bb over the 6th string 'lower' option.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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