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Topic: Changing out Kluson butterfly tuners on an Emmons |
Walter Bowden
From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2009 1:50 pm
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Hey y'all! I just changed out my old and worn out Kluson butterfly tuners on my Emmons S10 w/Gotoh vintage Kluson style tuners and boy, are they smooth and solid feeling. This was also my first time removing a keyhead, but with some very valuable tips from Billy Knowles over the phone, I think I did OK. There are 3 screws (2 phillips, 1 slotted) holding the head on the guitar and smaller machine screws (slotted) holding the tuners. You can access the keyhead screws from underneath and I took off the legs, pedal rods and pedal bar for ease of working on it. When you replace the parts be VERY CAREFUL not to "cross thread" anything. The new tuners require a very slight hole enlargement to allow for the stock screws to pass through. I did mine with a metal awl taking my time and hand sizing the screws individually. While I had it off I also removed the string rollers and shaft for a good cleaning. I have included pics of the process and "before and after" shots of the old tuners and new ones with fresh strings. One pic shows how I used an ice pick VERY GENTLY to lift out the rollers. Mine was pretty clean and very little effort was required to lift it out. One thing I noticed when I struck the keyhead with the wooden ice pick handle after taking off the old tuners and rollers, it has a distinct bell like ring centered at C# w/slight overtones! Is this indicative of good metal in the casting process? Anyhow, all you guys and girls wishing to upgrade tuners should try it if you have some decent screwdrivers, a little mechanical ability and TAKE YOUR TIME.
_________________ Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
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Bill Plemmons
From: Simpsonville, SC
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Posted 30 Dec 2009 12:52 pm
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Did the same thing to my 78 Emmons D-10 PP. The Gotoh tuners work great and are the only ones I found with 1/4 inch (actually .249") shafts. Kluson has a tuning key that looks the same as the original button head tuner but the shaft is .235" and results in too much play. Grovers also have the smaller shaft. |
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richard burton
From: Britain
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Posted 30 Dec 2009 1:28 pm
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I'm a little disconcerted by the C# pitch of the keyhead, my preference is for 14 hertz flat of E |
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Paul Norman
From: Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2009 1:41 pm
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Walter or Billy , Did you lose any Push-Pull Sound when you changed. I was wondering if taking the screws out and re-installing may affect it?
Mine sounds so good I hate to try it. |
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Bill Plemmons
From: Simpsonville, SC
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Posted 30 Dec 2009 6:08 pm
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Paul, tone was not affected. The old guitar sounds great. I tighten the neck screws just to the point where I feel slight resistance when the screw head bottoms in the countersink. |
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Bill Plemmons
From: Simpsonville, SC
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Posted 30 Dec 2009 6:11 pm
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Paul, I should have also said that I tighten the keyhead screws down tightly. |
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Paul Norman
From: Washington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2009 7:33 pm
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Thanks, Mine look so dirty and old I would like to
freshen it. I dont guess it would hurt the vintage.
A 71 S10 Push-Pull. |
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Robert Harper
From: Alabama, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2009 12:12 am Fine looking
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Theres not a picture of the guitar, but I bet it is fine as wine and the key head is great _________________ "Oh what a tangled web we weave when we first begin to deceive" Someone Famous |
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Walter Bowden
From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2009 8:16 am
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Thanks for the compliment Robert. I do think its a fine steel but I may be a bit prejudiced you know. As far as the tone changing from having the head off then back on, not a bit of difference and since I could do a major cleaning of the keyhead a lot better, the end result is well worth the job. The body holes/head screws line up very closely and keep the keyhead squared with the body when you re-install it and tighten down nicely. In fact, Billy Knowles and myself discussed the whole neck/keyhead torque thing you hear so much of over the phone before I attempted the work. Not meaning to re-open a huge can of worms, he felt the whole topic had gotten a little overblown and that a good snug, and even feeling fit were sufficient being very careful as to not cross thread or strip any screws or threads. As stated, I don't want to start a huge argument and I do not mean to speak for Billy specifically, but this is not a difficult job and the tone on my S10 p/p after the job is still, you know, TO THE BONE! Happy New Year! _________________ Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
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chris ivey
From: california (deceased)
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Posted 31 Dec 2009 11:42 am
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why did you take the keyhead off? can't you change the tuners with it on the guitar? |
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Don Drummer
From: West Virginia, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2009 5:26 pm
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You can change the tuners without removing the key head. I had to do this when someone sat on mine at a club in Williamsburg Va. and bent four in a row during some time off from a house gig with Carolina Charlie. I seem to recall some difficulty in not scratching the mica this way. Don D. |
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Billy Knowles
From: Kenansville, N. C. 28349 usa
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Posted 31 Dec 2009 7:06 pm Keys
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Walter,
It looks as if you did a great job.
Congratulation,
Billy |
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Walter Bowden
From: Wilmington, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2009 7:41 pm
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Thanks Billy. Hey Chris. Yes, you certainly can change the tuners without having to remove the keyhead. In fact, I had installed one of the Gotoh tuners before removing the keyhead just to see how the fit would be. I chose to take the keyhead off as a beginner project of pedal steel guitar mechanics. I have seen so many beautiful steel projects done by fellow forumites who took on some projects and wound up with great results. I simply wanted to do a project within my grasp and this one seemed like a good place to start. As a result, I didn't screw up and have gained some confidence and was assisted by very good advice from master mechanics found on this forum. Isn't that how newbies learn? _________________ Emmons S10, p/p, Nashville 112, Zion 50 tele style guitar, Gibson LP Classic w/Vox AC30, Fender Deluxe De Ville and a Rawdon-Hall classical |
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