Moving your bar backwards

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

As a follow-up to Paul Franklin's tip, my curiosity was piqued on how everybody else moves their bar back down the neck, especially when you need to hit the right spot quickly on the upper half of the neck. I don't have the biggest hands, so trying to hold the bar mostly with my index and thumb so that I can peek in between my index and middle finger for the upcoming fret is quite difficult. I imagine that if I really practice it, I would find the strength and coordination. Up until now, I had mostly relied on dipping below, spotting my target, then coming back up to it. Amateurish, yes. To move up to the next level, it appears my choices are learning how to hold the bar good with my index and thumb so I can see where I'm going, or practice so much that I have that "muscle memory" of where I'm going. The latter is rather daunting, as I have several guitars I like to play with varying scale lengths. I'm going to play around with both and try to make a decision. How about your guys and gals? I know I've seen this discussed in the past, but I couldn't quickly pull up the thread, and this will allow some input from people newer to the forum.
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My equipment:

One heck of a Wife
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Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Have seen many variations, but I think most hold/steady a bullet-shaped bar between middle and thumb, placing the index finger on top of it and using it to regulate pressure against the strings. We change the grip slightly on-the-fly for what we want to do with the bar ... slant, vibrato-roll, lift the bar off the strings, nose-dive, slam, etc.

Unless you play on the two highest strings, the bar-nose is, or should be, retracted towards the lower strings - the strings you actually play on - so you can see the fret past the bar-nose. This makes it easy to hit right whether you move upwards or downwards on the neck. Some put an angled "visual fretboard" along the front edge of the normal fretboard, so they can see where the frets are no matter what.

Reflexes - muscle-memory - usually take over with time/practice, but that'll only work well if you always try to hit straight on correct fret every time and don't allow "overshots". Precise, in-tune, hits require the combination of ear and reflexes, so it is important not to "cheat" too much while practicing/playing.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

When sliding the bar, either forward or backward,
It's practice and a good ear that guides your hand not your eyes. Very Happy

Brian Kurlychek · From: Maine, USA

Joe Wright says to always push the bar, never pull it.
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Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

That's only if you are playing an Emmons push/pull! Whoa!

Jerry Bull · From: Republic, MO, USA

I have trouble going down the neck, coming up is no problem. I had never really thought about it until reading this thread. I need to work on that. Playing scales backwards will help conquer this little problem I suppose.
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joe wright · From: Jackson, Michigan

My second video was only about the left hand. The key to making these moves automatic is to drill them in to your body. Most learn while trying to play a lick or passage, I isolate what I'm having trouble with and work on that in its smallest increments.

Place your bar at the first fret and move to every fret on the guitar. No right hand at all. Up and back.

Do every even fret.
Do every odd fret.
Do every three frets.
Do every four frets.

I see them as Chromatic left hand.
Whole tone left hand. (odd and even)
Diminished left hand. (every three)
Augmented left hand. (every four)

Up and down the neck in all combinations is what you are doing when you are playing.

I also have placed my bar at every fret and moved to every other fret. 1 to 2, 1 to 3 etc, then I do 2 to 1, 2 to 3 etc.

My left hand has been to every fret and moved to every other fret without worrying about what strings, tuning, song, chords etc. ISOLATE your problem and work on it.

Fatigue is not the fault of the bar, you need to be in playing shape. Drills and repetition will build up your accuracy, stamina and feel.

later...joe
http://www.pedalsteel.com

Jerry Bull · From: Republic, MO, USA

Thanks for tips Joe, you guys (pros) are awesome for your gracious attitude. Thanks again!
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Rick Batey · Posted 28 Dec 2009 6:16 pm

I've noticed one or two players on YouTube – one in particular who is much-admired on this forum – performing a 'walking' action with their left-hand pinkie finger, especially when going down the neck. They stretch out a finger to pre-locate a point one or two frets down, then shift the bar to it.

Is this considered a good habit to cultivate?

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

One exercise I do which is hugely helpful is pedal tones, played on a single string. Pick an arbitrary key root, with the bar on a string at the 3rd fret, say. Going up then, play 1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, 1-7, 1-8 (octave). Going down is the hard one - place your bar at the 15th fret and play 8-7, 8-6, 8-5, 8-4,8-3, 8-2, 8-1. (8-2, 8-3, 8-4, 8-5, 8-6, 8-7....) You'll quickly find, you have no bar chops to speak of... but practice makes perfect. Try just staying on a single string, and play the melodies you already know - how do you think people got good?

I got this from the Indian guys, who don't have any pedals to help. There's all sorts of musical variants to this, finding a harmony note on each different excursion, playing triplet "double pedal tones" with one note crawling around two other, etc. etc. This is part of my daily warmups, and I'm always looking for something to turn it into. Suggested listening: Debashish Bhattacharya, "Calcutta Slide Guitar 3."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8_HA_N5NYc&feature=related

Brian Kurlychek · From: Maine, USA

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Practice Practice Practice and years of playing. I don't even think about "how" I'm going to move the bar - whether it's up or down he neck - I just do it.

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

Can't disagree that the most obvious thing is to practice, no matter what you do. Heck, that's our mantra in my first-grade class. Most of my playing is on lap steel, and the slants, backwards/forwards, are what give me the problems when going back down the neck, only when I'm using the first two strings. My belief in what Paul Franklin said -- and I'm sorry that I've forgotten to do this the past few years, is that the guys that have that laser-beam type movement are actually eyeing the fret ahead of where they're at. In going back to what I used to do (again, I can't believe I'd dropped it), I'm finding that if I'm on fret 15, my eyes are on the next fret down I'm going to move to -- maybe even the next two. If my eyes are always ahead of my bar, I have no problem. This way, as my fingers move over the fret, hiding it before the bar gets there, I've already burned an image of where the darn thing is. Case solved.
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Al

My equipment:

One heck of a Wife
The ghost of a red Doberman
Several pairs of reading glasses strewn about

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

These are good questions and expansions on Paul's original thread. This is why I believe it would have been good for it to stay open. There's some good advice here by good players like Joe Wright, and others. We may find that all agree on the technique, or that some have different ways of accomplishing these moves. Whoever said you have to do what works for you hit the nail on the head, but taking advice for the experienced players like Paul, Joe, etc... is definiately a good starting place. That would be my advice.

Paul indicated that he was going to post some additional left hand techniques soon. I hope he does, and I promise I won't say a word, even if he recommends you do it standing on your head. Laughing

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I spread the fingers of my left hand. Actually it is the little finger and the ring finger that are spread. The other three digits are busy holding the bar. (Thumb on right side of bar, index finger on top of bar, middle finger on left side of bar.) I don't remember when or why I started spreading these fingers.

This thread got me thinking, and when I was playing just minutes ago it became clear to me why I do this, and why this is probably a good thing to do.

I am looking between my middle finger and my ring finger before moving down the neck when playing in the upper registers. I am getting an advance view of where I need to be going. If I did not spread my fingers I would be blocking the view of too many frets. When I am between about the 12th and the 17th or 18th fret I can usually see down two frets, but the actual move is fairly blind. When I am up in the twenties I am just praying.

This left-hand technique doesn't take the place of using your ears to find the intonation, but it sure helps to be somewhere near where you should be.

Robert Harper · From: Alabama, USA

An earlier post about tunning has made me think. for me that is usually dangerous. I would think the key is blending witht he bandor CD. I can see how when sitting in your house with no music being accurate is a must. However, If paying with a CD or live band, moving the bar to a position that blends with the group is the key, right. This applies to any method of tuning or moving the bar. I know that in theory tuning to a standard is the thing, but as instruments are played strings pushed, pulled, hammered on by mechanical devices, affected by heat, cooling, smoke and debris, the instruments aren't necessarly going to be to a standard. This is when the ear becomes the ost important? right?
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Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

My feelings on the subjects where the good hearted folks, take their time out, to share their knowledge on things asked for, should never be scrutinized. Whether it be Paul, Joe, or anyone else known to be top shelf players.

With all due respect to others, I honestly believe to the outside world, and quite possibly to many on the forum, Joe Write, is one of the most under rated players, while being absolutely one of the top players in the world today.

Anyone who can put on a show the way Joe does, and make it look as if he's strolling down the park, on a early Sunday morning, is not just good, it's a show of great knowledge in not only his steel playing ability, but his ability as a great musician in general.

Folks wanting to know, should be taking in everything that's being said, and applying it to his/her own playing. They might be surprised at the outcome in their playing ability. Others might even turn up to share their knowledge as well, if everything they said wasn't scrutinized as it usually ends up being.

My Hat's off to the generosity of the ones sharing their learned experiences for others to learn from.

Wishing everyone a great New Year.

Don, Helen & family

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