Two Different Instruments C6/E9

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

I am trying to learn the C6th neck (western swing) and find that the style, attack, and approach is completely different from the E9th neck. Was wondering if others felt the same way.

For example, the C6 neck appears to be more about chords and “grips”, as well as a lot more blocking from the right hand to get that Western Swing sound. I do not find myself peddling through progressions in a melodic approach but changing bar positions in more of a chord-al attack. Pedals are pressed to achieve a chord, and not so much to play a melody. This could be just the style of music, or I could be way off base.

Give me your thoughts

Thanks

Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · From: Clinton, Missouri USA

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

Jim Bob,
Thanks for the post. Sometimes it's good to get validation, and the forum is a great place to get feed back. I tend to sit in my corner of the living room with headphones on wondering, "Am I doing this right", so again thanks for the feedback.

Do you think it's Western Swing music and the style, or the C6 neck in general. Playing other "non-swing" type tunes on the C6 I tend to do the same thing. Then I see Buzz Evans play and ......well....

Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

Wayne Franco · From: silverdale, WA. USA

There certainly is a difference how you think on the two necks. One thing that is more prominent on the C-6 is how many chords are stacked on top of each other as opposed to the E-9. An example. at the 2nd fret I can get a C chord, F chord, D minor7 chord, a F major 7 and F6 chord all with the same pedal/lever combination. That's 4 chords in one spot! If I raise the 1st string a 1/2 step I can get a F root on top as well. Fast single note runs and phrases of course work in conjunction to working off those chord chord positions. Placement of where your changes are on your guitar have the potential of playing single note lines much more convenient too. The Emmons C-6 course certainly touches on the basics of some of this. Knowing where you're going and where these chord and chord pockets lay is critical IMO. Takes time and lots of focused study. Without a plan it will take you much longer. You living in Texas makes it much easier for you because of all the good C-6 players there. A good teacher will do wonders to your progress and of course lots of enthusiasm. If you live near Dallas e-mail me and I can hook you up with someone I know.

Wayne

Billy Tonnesen · From: R.I.P., Buena Park, California

This is where if you had started out on non-pedal stel you would have had a feel for moving up and down the necks to play melodies, fills, and improvisons. As an old-timer it was equaly hard for me when I finally got pedals to sit in a very limited positon on the neck and play the whole song within two or three frets. I ended up as sort of a hybrid player using both methods in playing. Just hang in there and you should finally acheive the C6th technique.

Billy Carr · From: Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)

Here's another thought. Lower your 4 & 8 strings with KL on E9th neck and you have a B6th tuning, pretty much. Move bar positive up one fret and there you go. C6th. I play a lot of Western Swing on E9th by doing this. Just a little short cut!

Paul Crawford · From: Orlando, Fl

I struggled a couple of years trying to understand C6th. I could play licks and tunes, but didn't really have a handle on the theory of how it worked.

Then I picked up Jerry Byrd's non-pedal course for the Serious Student, (intimidating name.) It stepped me through a simple E tuning right up to Byrd's C6/Am7 tuning. After working through the course and some jams playing familiar tunes on new tunings, suddenly it "clicked."

Now I more or less see C6th and E9th as variations on a theme. I'll pick the neck for the voicings rather than some tab told me so. For a western swing fan, it was well worth the investment in time and effort. FWIW

Roger Edgington · From: San Antonio, Texas USA

I play C6 about 60% of the time,mostly on swing tunes. To me the C neck is less confusing than E 9th. On the C neck you can blow big chords if you want to with less chance of a bad clam. Single notes follow chord pockets just like anything else. Some single note melodies fall in place or are easier to find in one tuning or the other depending on the song. I will often switch necks on a song because it lays better or just sounds better on one or the other. It is amazing to me how different the thought process is from pedal C6 to non-pedal C6. It's all fun.

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

I´ve been playing a C 6th/4th tuning for so long I
really can´t relate to E 9th enough for an analysis,
but I DID play some E 9th early on and,from what I
recall,I basically determined what notes to play and
just played them...what I mean is...IF You know
the harmonic system & Your guitar,the basic tuning
will be of lesser importance,bringing us(at least
me) to the conclusion:one specific tuning is not
automatically linked to one or two specific musical
styles or fashions...in the words of the great Jeff
Newman..."it´s what You know on what You´ve got"
McUtsi

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

Thanks all for the posts. It appears that I need to gain some basic "concept" knowledge on the C6 neck. I tend to find the basic chords based on fret position more than anything else. I have Herb Steiner just down the road, so maybe I can hook up with him to get some basics down. The tab I have purchased are starting to tell the story as well.

Thanks again for the perspective on the tuning and the approach.

Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

To me it's more than just two distinct tunings, it concerns the complexity of the chords usually used on either.
The E9th tuning is primarily set up and used for finding major and minor triads, and movement from one to another. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but generally speaking you don't hear the extended voicings of C6 played on E9 that often.
On the other hand, while the C6 tuning seems to offer opportunities for more complex extensions of chords, but if you don't understand those extensions, and where they are/are not appropriate, you'll be at a disadvantage. That in itself has very little to do with the tuning.
And that's also the reason these threads about "playing C6 on E9" make me shake my head. It once again has little to do with the tuning itself. If you don't understand extended chord voicings and the colours they might add to your harmonic pallete, then it's going to be very hard to find them, or use them effectively.
Before someone calls me on it, I'd like to state that this is not a value judgement. I find the beauty of more basic chord voicings very compelling as well. It's nice to have it all in your pocket though.

- John

Mack Quinney · From: Texas, USA

Got to take a lesson with Herb Steiner and he was able to shed some light on C6 for me. The room is not bright yet, but there is enough light for me to see the light switch so to speak.

Two things I got out of the session. 1. I need to learn the chords with the pedals and their location. This is no different than E9th; only different is that the chords the pedals make are more complex. 2. I need to learn where the chords are appropriate in the music. I think this will come from listening and practice.

A special thanks to Herb for the lesson. We had an in-depth discussion regarding chord theory, how these chords work in the music, and some basic "Why"! Equally important is I got some validation.

The validation part is very important for us beginner types. I suspect that there are quite a few people who practice in their corner of the room and wonder, “am I doing this right, and why can’t I do it this way, and does this work, etc.” So thanks Herb for spending some time with me and giving me some insight.

Mack
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford.

Forum Index > Steel Players		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: