Imus 12-18- 2009..organ device.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

There was a group on todays Imus in the morning on FoX News business channel (Channel 106 on COMCAST)...anyway the lead guitar player had some device that made his guitar sound like an organ. What was amazing about his sound was that when he played three note chords the sound was very clean and did not break up..so the single notes were great sounding and so were the chords..it was just like he was playing an organ but better. I would guess this would also work great on a steel. This was a small group, just lead guitar player, bass player and drummer..the Singer did not play an instrument. Wonder what the device was?

Bryan Daste · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Might have been the Electro-harmonix POG or HOG.
http://www.ehx.com/products/pog
http://www.ehx.com/products/hog

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I use a POG.
If you use that together with a Leslie simulator you can really get a great organ effect.

I do a lot of solo gospel sets and that is my most used effect on those nice slow gospel songs.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Thanks, Bryan and Erv, Most of the devices I've tried always come up short because they mess up the orginal sound, so I end up buying them only to shelf them...I guess I'm just a Steel, VP and amp type of guy. However this device seemed to be an added plus. Erv,how does the POG act alone..does it sound like an organ without messing up the orginal sound when you switch it off? What I'm asking is, can you put it between the VP and Amp without it distorting or diminishing the orginal signal, switch it on and get a nice organ sound on single notes and three note chords, switch it off and have your orginal clean signal?

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I don't know if this is the device you're speaking about. But I'm about to get the POG2, which generates 1 and 2 octaves above and below the dry note, is polyphonic, and has other parameters like attack, detune, and a low-pass filter. It tracks shockingly well - unlike most of the old but very cool-sounding analog octave devices like the Mutron Octave Divider - sounds good, and makes my guitars and steel sound eerily like pulling out the octave drawbars on a Hammond A-100 or B-3 organ - I have an old A-100.

The EH spec page - http://www.ehx.com/products/pog2 - says it's true bypass, and the bypassed signal sounded perfectly natural to me. I spent quite a bit of time trying a whole bunch of octave pedals out, and this blew everything away, to my ears.

It shouldn't be hard to find a store with one of these in stock to try yourself - although they're not cheap, I know a bunch of guitar players who swear by this one.

Just my take, but I like it enough to get one. I was originally just looking for a good single octave-below device for some funky guitar stuff, but this has a bunch of other very cool options.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Brad,
I was at my steel last night and had the POG hooked up.
It is placed after my VP and before the amp.
It is truly silent, no hum, and you don't even know it's there until you hit the button. Very nice unit.

Dave,
The POG2 is just an updated model of the original POG with a few more bells and whistles. They also make a micro POG with a smaller footprint but also with a few less features as the big daddy POG. I coundn't get quite the same organ sound out of this unit, but not bad.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Yes, Erv - I tried the Micro-POG initially. It did everything I needed for the funky guitar stuff - great polyphonic tracking and good sub-octave sounds - and almost bought it then and there. But my friend and store owner where I tried this out suggested I hold out till he got the POG2 in, and I'm glad I did. I really think running a guitar or steel into the POG2 and then running that through a Leslie (I have an old Leslie 122 guts put into a small box that I got from forum member Jim Dempsey several years ago) will give me pretty close to a true Hammond/Leslie sound.

My suggestion is to just get to a place and try these out for yourself.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Dave,
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
I use an H & K Rotosphere Leslie simulator.
I have it plumbed in the effects loop in stereo. This way I achieve some of the Leslie "swooping" effect.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Erv and Dave, Thanks for your information about the POG and POG2. I'm still a little confused. Are you saying that you still need a Leslie simulator with the POG or POG2 to achieve a true organ sound? I thought just one device would do the job...am I incorrect? The guy on Imus really had a good clean sound even when he played 3 note melody chords, if you were not looking at the TV you would have thought another instrument was playing..no breaking up, just a good clean sound. If whatever he had works that good on Steel it would really be a plus when working with a small group..all you need is a Steelman, a singer who plays rhythm guitar and a Bassman or drummer.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Brad, it depends on what you want. That which I consider the 'classic' Hammond organ sound is composed of two main parts:

1. The tone-wheel generated Hammond organ sound with drawbars.

2. That dry organ sound run through a Leslie speaker system.

Of course, there are other aspects like Hammond percussion, Hammond vibrato, and Hammond reverb, but I'm not really trying to get a guitar/steel to sound exactly like a Hammond organ.

The POG or POG2 by itself really gets more of the straight church-organ sound, which is great on its own. But I'm really into the Hammond/Leslie sound, personally.

The only thing - a lot of the time, I play with a B3 player. No way am I gonna do this working with him - one Hammond/Leslie combo in a band is enough. Smile

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Thanks Dave, I was just looking for a little variety, the church organ sound is great as long as it does not break up when chords are played...I'd only be using it on the E9th tuning...I play all the POP and Standards on E9th...You will probably get the POG2 before I do..if you have a chance, let me know how you like it. I think it would be great in 2 or 3 man groups..if it is a true bypass and does not mess up the orginal sound...Erv says his POG is a true bypass and does not distort his sound when it is turned off and left in the circuit. I guess the electronics are getting better as time goes by.

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Does the POG2 offer the same Hammond Control and sound of the HOG? Anyone?
http://www.ehx.com/blog/effectology-hammond-b3-organ

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Jeff,
That you posting that link on the HOG.
It appears tht the HOG has a harmonizing feature and more octave ranges than either the original POG or the POG2.
I feel the the effects of GAS setting in (Gear Acquisition Syndrome)! Whoa!

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Hey Erv, Are you saying the HOG is better than the POG or POG2...I wish we had some Steelman give us some demonstrations of these great devices..that HOG really sounded like an organ with the electric lead guitar..wonder if a steel guy could make it sound like that?

Jeff Hyman · From: West Virginia, USA

Erv,

I've been on that site more then once, and it was a surprise to me too. It's the B3 that would be my ultimate results. I came close to buying a POG many months ago. Seems like the HOG is a large unit, with other options (then a B3) that kinda turned me away from it. Why can't they make a simple small item that only does a good B3 emulation?

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

To do the B3 emulation, you would need a unit that could change the steel guitar's audio into an organ audio sound. Short of a MIDI converter played into a sound module, I don't think you will ever see this (with technology as advanced as it is already, we have not seen an effect that can change one instrument into another, besides synthesizers). The B3 has so many different sound components. First you have the tone wheels generating the notes (and leakage from one to the other when they get dirty, a sound most players love), the switchable "key click" sound, chorus or vibrato, distortion, different styles of amps used. Then you have the leslie to deal with. That's a whole other ball of wax.

Just a leslie simulator won't make you sound like a B3. It will fool some that don't know the difference. Even watching Rusty Young play through an actual Leslie, he did not sound like an organ, just a steel with a rotating speaker sound..

The best we can hope for at this time, is a good polyphonic MIDI converter for the steel that tracks fast and accurately and play through an organ module.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I went over with my wife to pick up my POG2 tonight - she's happy to be able to get something I really like for Xmas.

The POG and POG2 generate -2, -1, +1, and +2 octave tones. The HOG generates the octave up/down tones along with the possibility of 3rds and 5ths mixed in. I thought the HOG was just too much except for single-note playing - adding all those harmonics just jumbled things up too much when I played chords. It's not an 'intelligent harmonizer'. The advantage over the intelligent harmonizers I've tried is that these things track essentially perfectly - just phenomenal. But the tradeoff is that they aren't trying to figure out how to intelligently harmonize. That's why I specifically went for the POG - the only harmonics generated are octave and sub-octave multiples.

As I said earlier, the POG or POG2 don't make a guitar/steel sound exactly like an organ with the octave drawbars pulled out. But I found the tones eerily similar, and when I added the Leslie, it was very spooky. But again, even though I don't want to sound exactly like an organ, this rig does give me some of the great things - the big, fat, swirling, and majestic sound - I like about the B3 organ sound, without trying to be an exact clone like an organ-synth would.

BTW - none of these are specifically made to do organ emulation. That is one of many, many uses. I originally got into this looking for a good-sounding octave divider with real good tracking, and any of these do a great job with that also. Funk it up!

Just my take - imo, anybody thinking about one of these should go out and play around with the range and come to their own conclusion.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

If you will note on the HOG clip, they had a "Soul Preacher" in the mix.
I have one of those and may try adding that in.
It might improve the organ effect.

Dave,
I think the big difference between the POG and the POG2 is that the original POG doesn't have the -2 octave feature, just -1.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

Dave or Erv, are you plugging your effects into the Post EQ patch, send and return spaces or placing them between your VP and AMP?..I heard a lot of guys say the Post EQ patch was better...I never did it that way.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

Im a happy pog2 user myself. The key thing to me is that it tracks all the notes well without losing vibrato or slide.

The ultimate would be the hog soul preacher combo for that b3 sound, but that is about 900$ worth of effects.

I use my pog 2 with basically 2 settings, one with little dry dry and lots of octave, detune and late setting for a hocky rink/church organ sound, and the other is with lots of dry signal with little low and medium high octave. It sounds like you are playing simultaneously with a keyboard on the second one.

I also add overdrive to one song with the pog engaged and a lot of echo for some epic pink floyd meets Nazareth solo action. Really fun pedal to have.
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Sure enough, Erv - the original POG doesn't have the -2 octave, my error. It's not a big deal, but there are times when the -2 octave sounds good, especially in the organ emulation.

For pedal steel into a steel amp or guitar into a guitar amp, I'm generally going straight from guitar => buffer (if any) => volume pedal => other effects => main amp input. But I sometimes run my guitar into a Pod 2 => other effects => post-EQ effects return. This way, I can just use one amp for both guitar and steel, and have them EQ'd very differently.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Brad,
I hook my POG right into the line running from my volume pedal into the amp. I don't even know it's there until I kick it in.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

I recently tried out the MicroPog, Pog and Pog2.
The following are just my opinions and experiences thus far.

The Pog2 was the winner for me. 2 octave down, 2 up, the attack slider is extremely useful, as is the ability to save presets. It also has a smaller footprint than the Pog and unlike the Pog can run on a daisy chained 9 volt adapter. The Pog2's detune slider is sort of like a modulation effect but its too subtle for leslie action. There is a wide variety of sounds in the Pog2 (luckily we have 8 preset slots). On guitar theres alot of really fun stuff...12 strings, octaves up/down...crazy choruses, near envelope filter sounds, backwards sounds with the attack slider, you can make your guitar sound like a bass (tho I have no idea why you would want to) and of course the organ sounds. The organ works great on steel, awesome, but I havent monkeyed around with the other sounds enough to see if they would be useful. That organ sounds tho, man I know that will be useful. Nice organ pads at my disposal ....on steel, man thats cool Cool

Now to figure out how to cram it onto my already fubared pedalboard.

I balked at the huge price tag for a long time on this pedal then finally caved in after trying it. I dont regret the purchase in the slightest.

Brad Malone · From: Pennsylvania, USA

The organ works great on steel, awesome<<

Ben, Are you getting that organ sound with only the POG2 or do you have it in line with other effects? Thanks for any infomation.

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Its just the pog2 and volume pedal. No B3 player is gonna be fooled, but most non musicians will be.

A modulation pedal would help if you were seeking the leslie type sound. Kill the detune slider and add a rotoshpere type effect.

Within the organ sounds there is a lot of room for tweaking and variation...I still need to perfect a few presets, but I was getting good organ like tones out of it right away even the store.

Its not gonna replace an organ, but I think its a cool tool to have in the arsenal for those pads. I'm not gonna do the solo from inna godda da vida or antything on it Winking

Forum Index > Electronics	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic