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Topic: Pick-up for Resonator guitar |
Terje Brattsveen
From:
Nashville, TN. USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 4:18 pm |
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Can someone recommend a pick-up for a wooden resonator roundneck? I also have a metal Dobro brand roundneck from the 60's that I put a McIntyre microphone in. It sticks to the cone with something that resembles chewing gum, but it sounds real tinny. (from StewMac)I would like something much warmer for this wooden guitar. I have the guitar apart right now, and would like to install one before I put it back together, so any recommendations will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks.
Terje. |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 5:30 pm
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I put a Schertler Basik in my Gold Tone Maple Dobro a while back and I have to say I am extremely pleased with it. It sounds very close to a miked-up reso in a live situation. Plenty of volume (at least for me), well-balanced, and it has a nice airy, acoustic-sounding high end.
_________________
Tommy Detamore
Quilter Labs, Goodrich Sound, Source Audio, Neunaber Audio, and Stringjoy Authorized Dealer
www.cherryridgestudio.com
www.steelguitartracksonline.com
Last edited by Tommy Detamore on 30 Mar 2008 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Terje Brattsveen
From:
Nashville, TN. USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 6:40 pm
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Sounds like exactly what I'm looking for! How does it mount to the guitar and where can I get one?
Terje. |
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Tommy Detamore
From:
Floresville, Texas
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Dave Harmonson
From:
Seattle, Wa
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 7:27 pm
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| This topic has come up several times here, and I'll say it again, the Schertler Basik is by far the best I've heard. You can get plenty of volume and the tone sounds like a dobro. Like Tommy said, thy're not cheap, but if you want the right sound at a volume that works in a band this is the one. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 7:45 pm
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Schertler Basik was definitely the state of the art in the last few years until the recent unveiling of the new under-the-saddle reso pickup by Fishman, as trialed by Jerry Douglas. And there is the Fishman Aura Jerry Douglas model stomp box that is soon to be released.
So I wouldn't place your order for the Schertler until you at least investigate this:
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=98
I have seen Jerry with this setup three times in the past two years, and it sounds great.
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Mark |
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Dave Harmonson
From:
Seattle, Wa
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Posted 27 Mar 2008 8:08 pm
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Mark, I have heard about the new Fishman, but haven't seen or heard what they sound like. It may well be comparable or even better than the Schertler. I just know that for about 30 years I've been looking for something that worked and the Schertler is the first thing that really does the trick.
The ironic thing about the trouble trying to amplify a reso is that they were invented in the first place to make a guitar louder. Now some 80 years later they've finally come up with something to make them as loud as a good acoustic-electric 6 string. Life is full of circles I suppose. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 28 Mar 2008 7:24 am
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And that's why I added my two cents to the thread, since you haven't actually heard the new Fishman setup.
Any one in the exploratory phase of equipping their dobro with a pickup should check it out before they make their final decision - but the Fishman may not even be available until April.
Since Jerry Douglas is pretty well acknowledged as being at the top of the heap of the dobro world, checking out what he uses is sort of like those TV ads by E.F. Hutton from years ago, where the E.F. Hutton guy talks and everyone within earshot leans toward him while cupping their ears, and the narrator says: "When E.F. Hutton talks, people listen."
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Mark |
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Tommy R. Butler
From:
Nashville, Tennessee
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 7:46 am
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| The distinctive sound of a resonator guitar comes from its construction as an acoustic instrument. Once you put a pick-up on it it becomes a lap steel. My recommendation is that you play it without a pickup, and you keep a lap-steel available for the electric work. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 9:47 am
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Not to contradict you Alan, but I guess I will, since you are making an absolute declaration.
The search has been on for years to design a reso pickup that does a good job of amplifying a guitar and preserving the acoustic tone, like the good quality systems that are available for flattop guitars.
The best I'd heard previous to the new Fishman system was the Schertler. And as I wrote earlier, the new Fishman is indeed impressive.
Have you played or heard either the Schertler or new Fishman "up close and personal?"
Some of the older reso pickups indeed made them sound like lap steels, but these newer units are a giant improvement and I would be careful about making sweeping generalizations.
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Mark |
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Dave Harmonson
From:
Seattle, Wa
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Posted 29 Mar 2008 10:25 am
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| I have to concur with Mark. If you want a dobro sound with an electric band a Mic. won't cut it, and a lap steel won't have the tonal charcteristics of a dobro. I've had several of the "older" dobro pups that just make the reso sound like a crappy lap steel. I pretty much gave up on ever finding something to work right until the Schertler came along. In the same kind of path, when I first started playing music, I played acoustic guitar and tried many different things to try and amplify the acoustic and still sound like an acoustic. I wound up just playing Telecaster live until I got a Takamine Acoustic-Electric in the mis 80's. There are now any number of quality acoustic guitar pickups that sound good and give you ample volume. It's taken a little longer to come up with something equally as good for resos, but finally we have some choices. |
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Randy Sevearance
From:
Crouse, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 4:59 am reso pickup
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tb I just purchased a schatten it seems to be a real good pickup no feed back problem and you can use an external volume control. Good luck Randy
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Emmons D-10, Performance D-10, 2 Nashville 1000s, Nashville 400 W/fox Mod. Peavey VK112, Ibanez delay & Jordan Boss Tone,Hilton V/Pedal, Steeler Choice Seat Loaded,Micheal Kelly Dobro, 84 OMI Dobro, Quilter Steelaire combo,Redeemer,Holy fire pedal. |
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Larry Robbins
From:
Fort Edward, New York
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Posted 31 Mar 2008 7:32 am
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I use the Schatten RG-03 as well and have had very good luck with it.I like to use a mic with it as well when thats possible.
I run it through a LR Baggs Gigpro pre-amp into the PA. Works well for my wants.
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Twang to the bone! |
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Rob Anderlik
From:
Chicago, IL
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Posted 1 Apr 2008 8:12 am
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| Quote: |
Schertler Basik was definitely the state of the art in the last few years until the recent unveiling of the new under-the-saddle reso pickup by Fishman, as trialed by Jerry Douglas. And there is the Fishman Aura Jerry Douglas model stomp box that is soon to be released.
So I wouldn't place your order for the Schertler until you at least investigate this:
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=98
I have seen Jerry with this setup three times in the past two years, and it sounds great |
Mark:
I appreciate your obvious passion about this topic, but I am curious to know if you have done the A/B yourself - "up close and personal," or... are you basing your statement above solely on hearing Jerry play live?
Regards,
Rob |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 1 Apr 2008 11:57 am
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No Rob, I haven't.
It is strictly from hearing Jerry play it live...but I have also had some experience with the Fishman Aura system with an acoustic flattop, and I have been very impressed.
Yeah - I know- Jerry has a pretty complex signal chain for most of his shows - so it might be a good idea to take it all with a grain of salt, but let me contrast it with this: I saw the Dixie Chicks in Nov. 06, and Forum member Pete Finney did a fine job on both pedal steel and dobro, outstanding playing. And I have no idea what system he uses, but I have to tell you that the sound of his dobro in the Oakland Arena left a lot to be desired - the sound crew didn't seem to have a clue, or under the circumstances it was the best they could do. And this is from a very expensive, high end touring show.
Perhaps I should temper my passion and zealousness for the new Fishman system, but the value of my posts on the subject that I am trying to get across is that if one is looking for the current "holy grail" of dobro pickup systems, you owe it to yourself, if you are not in a rush to get something installed, to at least check out the new Fishman when it is available - if it is possible to do so in your neck of the woods.
I'm just kind've throwing up a red flag and saying "hold on - there is something soon to be available of which you should be aware - you may decide that you don't want it - but you ought to at least take a look at it."
At an AKUS show about a year ago, I spent a few minutes with the head sound man before the show and he was telling me how impressed he was with the new Fishman system and it was making his job a lot easier to get Jerry's dobros to sound natural in a concert environment.
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Mark |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 29 May 2008 4:38 pm 5 more days till it's here!!!
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Jerry Douglas Signature Series Aura Imaging Pedal
* 16 custom Fishman Aura Images created and used by Jerry Douglas specifically for resophonic guitars
* Volume, Blend, and Image Select controls
* Feedback-fighting Phase switch
* Bypass/Mute foot switch
* Input Trim with Clip/Low Battery indicator
* Runs on 9V battery or power adapter
* 24 bit A/D/A; 32 bit internal processing
* Dimensions: 5.6'L x 4'W x 2.1'H
Nashville Series Spider-style Resophonic pickup
New for 2008!
Spider-style Resophonic Pickup with split saddle piezo-ceramic pickup designed specifically for spider-style bridges and includes a 1/4' external jack for easy mounting
* Accurate reproduction of your instrument's unique acoustic sound
* Consistent sound for every performance
* An impedance matching preamp is recommended, but not required
* Professional installation is recommended
The Fishman Jerry Douglas Imaging Pedal hits stores on Tuesday. Looks like the pedal is selling around $250 for 16 Jerry Douglas created tones.
The pickup is selling for $170
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http://www.oldbluesound.com/about.htm
http://www.facebook.com/cowboytwang |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 29 May 2008 5:53 pm
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The following quotes are from the Jerry Douglas NeighBROhood Forum:
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JerryD, from Feb. 21 in one of the Ask Jerry threads: "OK,this is what happened. We recorded the pickup and mic at the same time, and matched the mic's waveform with the pickup, then loaded that reaction into the Aura. The Fishman pickup will get the maximum results with the Aura. I've run other pickups, Schertler, McIntyre, older version Fishman, through it with lesser results. Even my lapsteels will take on the dobro tone slightly, but not as defined. We are still working on the pickup details. I'll see if we can offer it with the ebonex tops as well. I can tell you that it answers prayers I've had for "mobility with real tone" for years. Go wireless, no mic, and sound like you're playing through a Neumann."
I (Mark) don't see it as a shortcoming that the new Aura stomp box doesn't work that great with the existing pickups on the market, I see it as the reality of a new technology. If I had the Schertler, I wouldn't be too quick to fork out the money, and pain required, to change over. I can remember Brad Harper (luthier and fine reso player) posting something along the lines of "the new Schertler makes my Fishman (passive reso pickup - the one that has been around for several years) sound like an A.M. radio." So unless you have money to burn, you are probably pretty happy with your Schertler. When Todd Clinesmith built my guitar in 2004, the Schertler reso pickup wasn't happening yet, so I have the Fishman passive, and though I can do some things to make it sound pretty decent - I know it is not going to be in the same league as the new Fishman, just as the McIntyre Feather is not going to be in the same league as the new Fishman. To expect great results through the new Fishman JerryD stompbox with those older pickups falls into the "trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" category. registered |
We had a pretty detailed discussion of the new Fishman system on Jerry's forum (and I know that some members here are also members there). I wrote the above section. I had earlier asked Jerry if there was the possibility of other bridge cap materials besides maple, because Todd C. installed an Ebonex bridge cap in my guitar a while back and I think it is a significant improvement over maple.
Jerry then replied to my long entry above with this:
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| That's right, the Aura will only reach it's full potential with the pickup we have created the images with. The sound is incredible! I am finally happy with the sound I get onstage. I am completely mobile,no microphone. I create my own dynamics the same way I would in a room with other instruments. Play harder when it's time, back off when it's not. The pickup is easily installed into the spider. Paul (Beard) has even put setscrews into the back of the spider bridgeslots to keep the pickup tight and it sounds great acoustically as well. That was the last true test. This IS the new technology. Everything is new from here on out. I am putting the finishing touches on the 16 images right now. Everything from Neumann microphones to a Shure SM57. |
Guys - I don't want to come off too much like a combination of president of the Jerry Douglas fan club and west coast sales rep for Fishman (though I could probably qualify for both  ), but as Jerry wrote in the above quote: This IS the new technology...and I believe it is going to free a lot of folks that love to play dobro from having to fight feedback, and sound "bleeding" issues, and other maladies which have plagued the instrument in the past in a band situation - and you won't have to deal with all of these so-called "dobro simulators" that I would never own! 
_________________
Mark |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 29 May 2008 7:55 pm
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| ...and I believe it is going to free a lot of folks that love to play dobro from having to fight feedback, and sound "bleeding" issues, and other maladies... |
If the electric bass is rattling your cone, that in turn is going to move the bridge which will bleed through the pickup.
IIRC, Paul Beard will install one of these for you, with his customized spider, for $450. That includes the pickup and the Aura box. It is a little cheaper than buying a Jerry Douglas model Beard, which start at something over $5K.
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Lynn Oliver
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 29 May 2008 8:17 pm
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| Lynn Oliver wrote: |
| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| ...and I believe it is going to free a lot of folks that love to play dobro from having to fight feedback, and sound "bleeding" issues, and other maladies... |
If the electric bass is rattling your cone, that in turn is going to move the bridge which will bleed through the pickup.
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You sound pretty positive about this, Lynn, winking emoticon guy aside...
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Mark |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 29 May 2008 8:23 pm
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| You sound pretty positive about this, Lynn, winking emoticon guy aside... |
What can I say... I like a lot of bass. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 29 May 2008 8:31 pm
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Lynn, when you were at Wintergrass, did Paul Beard have a guitar set up with the unit so that one could take it for a test ride?
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Mark |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 29 May 2008 10:14 pm
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Yes, he had two of the Jerry Douglas signature models at Wintergrass with the pickup. He gave us a good look at the modified spider that holds the pickup inserts with screws.
I didn't personally have a chance to try one out, but I'm sure there were others on SGF that were there. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 30 May 2008 5:16 am
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Just briefly...(and not scientific),
I A/B'd the Schertler and new Fishman with 2 similar (not identical) guitars. I was very impressed. Not only did it sound like the guitar was mic'd (with a choice of mic images) it was noticeably _much_ more resistant to feedback.
The Schertler, a very good system, still had some mild midrange "honk". The Fishman had none. I did not drive the Aura pedal with the Schertler.
btw. I later tried my McIntyre equipped guitar with the Aura pedal and it seemed to work ok, except I could not drive the pedal to it's limits (clip). Feedback rejection sucked though.
I was driving both systems into a Fishman Loudbox Performer. I was less than 5ft from the amp.
Full Disclosure:
I work for Paul Beard. We sell all the systems mentioned and Paul helped Fishman with the design. We've seen all the prototypes and did the installations for Jerry Douglas.
There you have it.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Last edited by Howard Parker on 30 May 2008 6:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Bob Simons
From:
Kansas City, Mo, USA
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Posted 30 May 2008 5:46 am
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What will work on my 1933 type O National? I've always wanted to amplify it but I am loathe to make holes in my vintage instrument. How do you mount to this style of guitar?
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Zumsteel U12 8-5, MSA M3 U12 9-7, MSA SS 10-string, 1930 National Resonophonic, Telonics Combo, Webb 614e, Fender Steel King, Mesa Boogie T-Verb. |
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