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Topic: 6th Knee lever |
Ron Meecey
From:
Pacific Mo. USA
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Posted 17 Nov 2009 6:03 pm |
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| I have a new Zum SD-10 Hybrid coming in a couple of weeks. My question is: For those of you who have 6 knees on your e-9th neck, what is the most common 6th knee? I don't have to have 6, but would like too if I knew what raise or lower it would be. My set up on my gig guitar (Zum D-10 Hybrid) is standard emmons 8 and 5. Thanks for any info. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 9:42 am
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Ron,
I have a question for you.
Why would your order a SD-10 guitar with 6 knee levers if you don't know what you are going to do with the 6th lever?  |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 12:54 pm
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| What Erv said,, in triplicate! |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 1:12 pm
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I guess my first question would be how many floor pedals are you ordering? If you are getting the guitar with 5 floor pedals like Dave Hartley's my answer would be different than if you were getting 3. It seems prudent to get at least 4 floor pedals on a SD-10 in case yuo want to experiment of add something like the Franklin pedal later.
I've ordered guitars with extra knee levers in the past just to allow for future experimentation. At the minimum it gives you an immediated supply of extra bell cranks, tuners and pull rods (if they are long enough).
Here's a link to my copedant to chew on:
http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Msa/Copedant.html
Greg |
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Jesse Leite
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 1:39 pm
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My BMI has 4 pedals and 6 levers, but I have two of my knee levers flipped up at all times because I can barely handle even using 1 lever and 2 pedals  ...I figure if Lloyd Green can play without all those extra changes, that's good enough for me. It's nice to know I can grow into the instrument later on though!
So although I am not qualified to use them yet, I can at least tell you what my changes do; maybe one of changes would be useful for your 6th change...
A,B,C pedals:
typical Emmons setup
D pedal:
lowers G#'s a half step (which makes open E major chord an E minor)
LKL & LKR:
typical Emmons setup
LKV:
lowers B's a half step (is this common? i haven't used it yet)
RKL (outter lever):
raises 1st string a whole step, and raises 2nd string a half step (which makes these two chromatic strings diatonically fit into your open chord)
RKL (inner lever):
lowered 6th string a whole step (i have this lever disabled because i needed the bell crank elsewhere when we converted the copedent)
RKR = lowers 2nd and 9th strings a half step each with a feel stop on the 2nd string to lower further to a whole step (is this common? i haven't used it yet) |
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Ron Meecey
From:
Pacific Mo. USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 2:10 pm 6th pedal
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| Guys thanks for all the responses. I guess I want the extra knee if it can give me something that I may be missing know. I started playing without knowing how to use the five I had. Now, I do use all of them every nite I play and if I can benifit from one more why not! Thats my take Erv and Bobby. The new guitar does have 4 pedals with 4th being the Franklin. It's a standard 5 pedals as it is being built. Thanks again to all. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 2:17 pm
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Ron,
I don't think I could get used to that inner and outer knee business.  |
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Ron Meecey
From:
Pacific Mo. USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 2:31 pm
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| Thanks Greg! I see some possible interesting sounds with your RK and...I do like the possibility of having the ability to add something else later. Ron |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 3:11 pm
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I have been thinking of adding a 6th lever and it would be as mentioned above, an inside RKL lowering 6. I would like to have both the 7 raise and the 6 lower and do not want the 6 lower on the same lever as 1 and 2 raise.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 3:42 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Ron,
I don't think I could get used to that inner and outer knee business. |
I'm with you, Erv. I tried it for a while and kept hitting the wrong one at the worst possible moment. My brain must not work that way.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jesse Leite
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 4:30 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
| I have been thinking of adding a 6th lever and it would be as mentioned above, an inside RKL lowering 6. I would like to have both the 7 raise and the 6 lower and do not want the 6 lower on the same lever as 1 and 2 raise. |
Tony, I see what you mean as both of the changes (the 6 lower, and the 1&2 raise) are on the same knee (inner and outter), so you can do the inner change separately, then shove your knee in and hit both levers at once to get your combined change.
The theory of this sounds cool; but for me it'll be down the road. I haven't been using either change because I am not at that level yet. I am still trying to wrap my head around using the A+B pedals, and just using the raise and lower E's levers  |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 7:31 pm
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on my LKL2 (front) I lower the 5th G# to F# (with split) and raise the 1st F# to G !
_________________
14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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Marvin Born
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 9:38 pm 6th knee lever
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You can raise F#(s) one full step on the LKL #2, Then raise F# to G on the RKL.
I would agree with you to order the 6th knee from the factory. It is much easier to have the factory install the knee than add it later.
For example, you would have to remove the full length cross shaft on LKL, move it to the left, install a split shaft in LKL position, install the two knee levers and two stops, (6 wood screws, 6 holes to drill, and two press in bushings), use a connector link and then the additional bell cranks and pull rods. Then get it adjusted. If Zum installs the knee, then any future changes would just require moving the bell cranks along the cross shaft and using the correct pull rod, which Zum will provide with a phone call.
This is a very smart move if can cover the cost of the extra knee up front. |
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John Bechtel
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 9:45 pm
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I have (6)-KL's on my D-10 Derby E9 and on my extra LKL I decided to include one of the standard changes that I never used before and actually still don't use all that much. (That's why it's in the fartherest-left position!)
E9__LKL1__LKL2__LKV__LKR__RKL__RKR
F#___G____________________G#_______
D#________________________E____D/C#
G#_________________________________
E__________F__________Eb___________
B________________Bb________________
G#________________________F#_______
F#___G_____________________________
E__________F__________Eb___________
D_______________________________C#_
B________________Bb________________
_________________
<marquee> Go~Daddy~Go, (No), Go, It's your Break Time</marquee> L8R, jb
My T-10 Remington Steelmaster |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 18 Nov 2009 11:21 pm
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A couple of changes come to mind:
1-raising the 4th (+/- the 8th string) a whole tone from E-F# giving you the BC change while on AB plus a number of neat licks (Tom Brumley)
2-another cool change is to raise the 6th string G# a step and a half to a B (Russ Hicks)or
3-another might be to lower the 7th string F# to an E giving you a monster E7th open(not including the 1st 2 strings) ala Sacred Steel. |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2009 7:13 pm
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Hey Ron, Raising the forth is a very useful change.
Give me a call and I'll let you hear mine.
Got a lot of compliments on your playing at the show.
Thanks, BD
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 20 Nov 2009 9:20 pm
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| Erv Niehaus wrote: |
Ron,
I have a question for you.
Why would your order a SD-10 guitar with 6 knee levers if you don't know what you are going to do with the 6th lever? |
Because the parts will be on it for future enhancement!
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 20 Nov 2009 9:31 pm
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| It really is kinda fun to have an extra knee lever or pedal just to experiment with and not have to disrupt what you already have for those of us ADD'ers that can't seem to practice enough . |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 8:15 pm
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First, Ron: do get the extra KL installed by Bruce, it's done better, and if you're curious, hey go for it, I love having all the changes that more KL's offer. I just wish there weren't a limit to how many you can really use!
Tony Prior, I highly recommend you NOT make your 6th lever a RKL. A second RKR would have more chance of success ergonomically.
But I completely agree with you, having strings 1 and 2 raised on the same KL that lowers 6 a whole tone just ruins so many pretty chords. It's an evil compromise for those with only 5 KL's.
I've uploaded here my 12 string E9 copedent for discussion sake. I really like the string E>F# (and string 8 E>D) on my front LKL (named "Ralph"), got that idea from our friend here Jim Palenscar (a brilliant technician, listen when he speaks!). I put changes that used to be there on new rear RKL #7, the one named "Paul." But a KL in that position is almost unusable, so for now I've lost the 2 independent changes there.
Palenscar's going to help me build a pushing-forward LKL where I can move those "Paul" changes and solve all my problems...for now at least, eh Jim? 
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2009 9:53 pm
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First, Ron: do get the extra KL installed by Bruce, it's done better, and if you're curious, hey go for it, I love having all the changes that more KL's offer. I just wish there weren't a limit to how many you can really use!
Tony Prior, I highly recommend you NOT make your 6th lever a RKL. A second RKR would have more chance of success ergonomically.
But I completely agree with you, having strings 1 and 2 raised on the same KL that lowers 6 a whole tone just ruins so many pretty chords. It's an evil compromise for those with only 5 KL's.
I've uploaded here my 12 string E9 copedent for discussion sake. I really like the string E>F# (and string 8 E>D) on my front LKL (named "Ralph"), got that idea from our friend here Jim Palenscar (a brilliant technician, listen when he speaks!). I put changes that used to be there on new rear RKL #7, the one named "Paul." But a KL in that position is almost unusable, so for now I've lost the 2 independent changes there.
Palenscar's going to help me build a pushing-forward LKL where I can move those "Paul" changes and solve all my problems...for now at least, eh Jim?
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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