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Topic: WHAT if? |
Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 10:27 am |
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If it's generally accepted that the STEEL GUITAR resulted from early day Spanish settlers......
who left their Spanish Guitars behind after they departed the islands............
and that a metal/bone(?) device was inserted one day at the nut position allowing the strings of the Spanish Guitar to be raised above the fretboard....
and that someone then accidentally slid a metal device up and down on the strings thereby creating this entirely new musical sound..........
and thus, the new instrument was called the HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITAR (accoustic)....
until one day this new guitar was amplified and became known as the ELECTRIC HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITAR...
and then one day, someone decided they could achieve fuller and more beautiful musical chords that could be altered during the playing of this new guitar, they proceeded to install foot pedals and subsequently, knee levers.......and this was to become known as a pedal steel guitar.
INSTEAD of re-writing HISTORY...........and trying to reinvent the wheel, why can't this steel guitar community 'agree to agree' that too many Johnny come lately, descriptive names might actually be doing a tremendous disservice to the instrument we all profess to love so very much?
These instruments above described are HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITARS......some have had additional options applied to them to 'make them better' or more versatile in playing their unique sounds.
So, why don't we STOP calling this wonderful instrument SLIDE GUITAR, LAP TOPS, LAP STEEL, NON-PEDAL, and a host of other unflattering and confusing names that have been created since 1980?
Let's give this instrument the respect it so rightfully deserves! Let the newcomers learn the proper names and techniques for playing this wonderful sounding instrument instead of constantly trying to invent new and bazar names.
OK? Now let's hear all of the sniveling and whining as to WHY this can't/shouldn't be done. I sense it's coming.......... |
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David Hartley
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 10:39 am Hi Ray
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I won't snivel and whine, beacause I agree with you..
I am sure this one will get some replies you described.. Perhaps Alan will be the first one..
He might think you are complaining Ray.. |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 10:46 am
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So, who gets to come up with this all-encompassing name, or are you suggesting that the name should be Hawaiian Steel Guitar?
My guitar has never been to Hawaii and has never had a Hawaiian song played on it. It does have pedals on it. Maybe I could call it a Pedal Steel Guitar...........  |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 10:50 am THANK YOU David Hartley............
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David, thank you for the prompt response and for generally agreeing with the point I'm attempting to make here.
Oh YES! I'm certain there are a whole bunch of TUNE from the 14th, 12th, 10th, 8th or 6th string "UP" to the top "E" strings....pickers.......that are seething at the prospect of doing it the way it's always been done.......the long established 'standard' way of doing things.
For whatever reason.....there are those that simply will not conform even if it's for the best and most worthy of reasons.
I remember the yelling and screaming protests when the wearing of white shirts and dark trousers was suggested as a replacement to the current standard of ripped blue jeans with spotches of grime thereon.
I can hear the revolt........in the distance. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 11:09 am
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Ray, you always make good points, but I find your post very difficult to read due to excessive use of bold letters. Maybe it's just me?  |
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David Hartley
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 12:35 pm
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| its just you, |
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin
From:
Sweden
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 12:50 pm
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Right on,I prefer the correct terminology,but find
myself misinterpreted every so often,since "Hawaiian
Guitar",to many people,is indicative of a musical
style and not an instrument,so...I cop out by using
terminology like Lap Steel etc...easy way out...
McUtsi |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 1:01 pm Re: WHAT if?
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
If it's generally accepted that the STEEL GUITAR resulted from early day Spanish settlers......
who left their Spanish Guitars behind after they departed the islands............
and that a metal/bone(?) device was inserted one day at the nut position allowing the strings of the Spanish Guitar to be raised above the fretboard....
and that someone then accidentally slid a metal device up and down on the strings thereby creating this entirely new musical sound..........
and thus, the new instrument was called the HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITAR (accoustic)....
until one day this new guitar was amplified and became known as the ELECTRIC HAWAIIAN STEEL GUITA
INSTEAD of re-writing HISTORY...........and trying to reinvent the wheel, why can't this steel guitar community 'agree to agree' that too many Johnny come lately, descriptive names might actually be doing a tremendous disservice to the instrument we all profess to love so very much. |
Why not just call it -a SPANISH GUITAR,with raised strings playing it with a piece of steel. Joe |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 1:39 pm
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Ray, You got me thinking  If it was called a Spanish guitar that changes where make on it wouldn't it still be a Spanish Guitar.Back then it still looked like a Spanish guitar.Yes guitars today have changed their looks,but they are still called guitars. I tell people I play that other guitar,-you know-
the funny looking one :)Joe
www.willowcreekband.com |
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Bryan Daste
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 2:21 pm
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| I agree with Ulric - if you say, "I play Hawaiian steel guitar," people are going to expect Hawaiian music to come out of it. |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 3:50 pm
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Why not refer to it as just a "steel Guitar" and then refer to type of Music being played on it.
People need to be indoctronated into knowing the "Steel" refers to the Bar that is placed on the raised strings to get the unique sound.
IMHO the Steel Guitar became popular in the 30's because there was a lot of Hawiian music on the radio and in the Movies. When I first started playing Dances in the 40's most of the customers referred to the Steel Guitar as "Hawiian" and it became one of the most popular intruments in the Band even though it was playing other types of music. Gradually it got away from the Hawiian stereotype. |
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 8:21 pm
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Why not call it a funny looking piano? That's what the unlearned call it.
_________________
heavily medicated for your safety |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Nov 2009 8:22 pm
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| Quote: |
| I agree with Ulric - if you say, "I play Hawaiian steel guitar," people are going to expect Hawaiian music to come out of it. |
Which is fine, except that onl a small portion of Hawaiian Music, and almost NONE of what is generally accepted as "Traditional Hawaiian Music" has a "steel guitar", much less an electrified one in it. Mostly Slack Key or Uke providing the stringed instrumentation. I was surprised myself when I got to liking the Beemers and Makaha Brothers. No steel at all..
Wikipedia Sucks. I Think b0b helped to create it, bless his heart, but They have a pretty good "Opinion Piece" on "Hawaiian Music".
Wikipedia Sux like I said, and those reading their 'Opinion Piece' astutely, will notice they say "Sol Hoopi Invented Pedal Steel Guitar".
| Quote: |
| The musician Sol Ho'opii arose during this time, playing both Hawaiian music and jazz, Western swing and country, and developing the pedal steel guitar; his recordings helped establish the Nashville sound of popular country music -Wikipidiot- |
It does however tell of the Panama Pacific Exposition in the early 1900s when HM exploded into the US.
As for the question Ray, I dunno why we don't call it a Hawaiian Steel Guitar.
Maybe we could post an aticle on Wikipedia, and get the ball rolling. At least someone could mention Jerry Byrd. I myself was even a little miffed at his ommission from the Wikopinion Article.
EJL
PS. Hopefully Reece will get around to posting his "Tone Theorum" there.. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 12:24 pm
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I don't know where that comes from. I had nothing to do with the creation of Wikipedia or the specific page about Hawaiian music. 
Some people these days refer to the slack key style as "Hawaiian guitar". I have seen slack key concerts billed as "Hawaiian Guitar" shows.
Do we call Bob Dylan and Neil Young "Spanish guitar players"? Of course not. By the same reasoning, I would avoid calling a steel guitar by the name Hawaiian steel guitar, if it wasn't being used for Hawaiian music. I hear nothing Hawaiian in the music of Aubrey Ghent or Steve Kimock. Hawaiian is a style of music, not a kind of instrument.
That's how I think of it, anyway.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Clyde Mattocks
From:
Kinston, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 12:45 pm
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Well, just the word "Guitar" does not describe the instrument in all its variations, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, electric/acoustic guitar, classical,
resophonic blues, etc. While I sympathize with Ray's
attempts to have an all emcompassing name, the public at large will not adopt it. Those in the know
are aware of the differences and those who don't will never care enough either way.
Anyway, Ray I enjoy your posts.( and your picking).
_________________
LeGrande II, Nash. 112, Fender Twin Tone Master, Session 400, Harlow Dobro, R.Q.Jones Dobro |
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Allan Munro
From:
Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 2:26 pm
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I will go along with the OP's suggestion the day that the accepted term for all Tele's, Strats and LP's becomes Spanish guitars.
But wait! I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Spanish Guitar evolved out of some kind of Egyptian instrument. So...
I will go along with the OP's suggestion the day that the accepted term for all Tele's, Strats and LP's becomes Egyptian guitars.
But wait! I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Egyptian Guitar evolved out of some kind of Chinese instrument. So...
I will go along with the OP's suggestion the day that the accepted term for all Tele's, Strats and LP's becomes Chinese guitars.
But wait... etc.
_________________
Only nuts eat squirrels.
Television is the REAL opiate of the masses! |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 2:47 pm
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I play the instrument that evolved from the Spanish/Hawaiian guitar. It has pedals on it. Therefor it is called, rightly so, the Pedal Steel Guitar. Plain and simple.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 5:11 pm
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| Quote: |
Wikipedia Sucks. I Think b0b helped to create it, bless his heart, but They have a pretty good "Opinion Piece" on "Hawaiian Music".
Bob: I don't know where that comes from |
LMAOTF....
Db 
_________________
www.steelguitarsonline.com |
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 5:12 pm
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| It is an "Electric Console Harp" and it sounds better if it is black. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 6:25 pm
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I always liked the name "sit-down guitar" meself...
_________________
Primitive Utility Steel |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 8:25 pm
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A Norwegian folk-musician once described the PSG "a Langeleik with pedals." I don't think he was too far off...  |
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David Hartley
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Posted 11 Nov 2009 8:38 pm
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Acoustic Guitar...."Simples"..
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Bo Legg
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Posted 14 Nov 2009 3:36 am
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Guitar: Named for the original strings on the instrument. Cat gut soaked in tar.
This was way before PETA. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 14 Nov 2009 10:27 am
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| Ray Montee wrote: |
If it's generally accepted that the STEEL GUITAR resulted from early day Spanish settlers who left their Spanish Guitars behind after they departed the islands............
... Now let's hear all of the sniveling and whining as to WHY this can't/shouldn't be done. I sense it's coming.......... |
Yep. Ray, my friend, I usually agree with you but in this instance the discussion isn't so cut and dried. I agree that we need to stop fooling about with what we call the instrument, and for me I would prefer to call everything but the pedal steel an Hawaiian guitar, but I have doubts about the origins of the instrument...
| Georg Sørtun wrote: |
| A Norwegian folk-musician once described the PSG "a Langeleik with pedals." I don't think he was too far off... |
This has been proposed as an alternative origin of the Hawaiian guitar; Board Zithers (Langeleik/Hummel/Epinette des Vosges/Scheitholdt) played with a bar. Instruments have been played with bars in Europe, Asia (particularly India) and the Orient, for centuries. I'm sure that old guitars with bad action prompted poor people to use a tone bar, and the same reason probably prompted black blues players in the southern U.S. to play with bottlenecks, but any theory as to origin of the Hawaiian guitar per se is speculation at this stage.
One of the problems with terminology is that putting a pick-up on any instrument and making the body solid makes all instruments the same. For instance, the difference between a guitar, a lute, a cittern, is the body shape, which results in differences in sound, but if you put an electric pick-up on any of those instruments they sound the same. Why is an electric guitar an electric guitar and not an electric cittern ?
The pedal action of a pedal steel guitar is derived from the pedal harp, so is the PSG an Electric Barred Pedalharp ?
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=169006&highlight=hummel
Check out the above link.
| Alan Brookes wrote: |
I've mentioned several times the similarity between the Mountain Dulcimer and the Lap Steel.
[1] Both are played from above.
[2] Both use a tone bar (called a noter)
[3] Both are rested on the knees.
I've been building Board Zithers (of which the Mountain Dulcimer is an example) and Lap Steels since the early 60s, and some of the instruments could be called either.
There are many people who believe that the Hawaiian Guitar originated from board zithers brought over from Europe or the Indies, and I'm one of them.
This is a Hummel, which I built about 20 years ago.
This is an Acoustic-Electric Hummel which I built about the same time. One of the problems of all board zithers is that they have a diatonic fingerboard, which means you can only play them in one or two keys. I came up with the idea of interchangeable fingerboards. By removing the fingerboard and clipping in a different one you could change modes. I created fingerboards in each of the modes, plus a chromatic one with all the frets, which you could use to play in any key.
But I also built a fingerboard with NO FRETS WHATSOVER. With this fingerboard in place you played with a tone bar.
Here's the same instrument with the fingerboard unclipped and set to the side. At this stage it doesn't just play like a lap steel, it IS a Lap Steel. |
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Eddie Cunningham
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 14 Nov 2009 11:01 am "Hawaiian"guitar came from Japans "Koto"
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| I did some research and found that the Japanese 7th century stringed instrument the "Koto" which was derived from the 5th century Chinese "Guzheng" , both had from 5 to 13 strings and were played with three picks , thumb and two fingers , on an instrument with movable bridges and you pressed down in back of the bridges ( like pedals!! ) to get a moving pitch of sound !! It lay on a table and pictures look like a big "Hawaiian" steel guitar !!!! Is this where it all started ???? Eddie "C" |
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