How can you learn music theory?

Jimmie Martin · From: Ohio, USA

How can you learn music theory at an older age without going to school? I'm 61 almost 62 can't play steel worth much and i don't seem to be able to catch on to where do i go from one chord to another. Does that make any sense?

Pat Carlson · From: Sutton, Nebraska, R.I.P.

Jimmie, I am in about the same boat as you Confused

just a few years younger.I have been told to learn chord structure and progressions buy some folks on here.
Fellow forumite,Michael Perlowin has a book on music theory in the real world and a supplement as it applys to the E-9th steel guitar. The book is published by Mel Bay Publications. I got mine from Scottys Music in St. Louis :)This book is quite helpful to me. Mr. Perlowin hangs out on here very often he probably could help you out Smile

http://www.scottysmusic.com/booksinst.htm
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Terry Sneed · From: Arkansas,

I have Michael Perlowin's book also, it's a good book. You can also do a search on music theory from your internet browser and get a lot of good information. Good luck, I know some major scales, intervals, and the number system and that's about as far as I will ever get. Smile

terry

Bryan Daste · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

There are also some free sites & resources online, maybe not as complete as a book or a course:
http://www.musictheory.net/ has some nice bite-sized lessons.
If you prefer videos, I ran across this guy today:
http://waltribeiro.net/archive/
Hope that helps!

Jimmie Martin · From: Ohio, USA

Thanks guys it all helps. At my age is it just best to learn tablature songs or try to learn music theory? I won't be around that many more years. I'm not worrying about getting gigs. I did get a c-6th course from the forum by Buddy Emmons. I learned 1 song. He teaches so cleary and precisely. Very easy person to learn from.Jimmie

Geoff Marshall · From: North Lincolnshire U,K.

I was always impressed with the theory sections in the Winnie Winston pedal steel 'bible' that most Know and love. Mikes book is well concieved too.

Bryan Daste · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Learning theory is important because it makes learning songs a lot easier. One day you will want to learn a song that has no tab!

Kenn Geiger · From: Salem, Oregon, USA

If you ask Mike, he might send you the steel guitar portions that he removed from his theory book before publishing it. He sent it to me ~ Thanks Mike MTW!

I have been reading his book for almost 4 years now and just a little is sinking in finally, because I think you and I are in the same boat - Where do we start and go from ? I'm just now finding all the chords (major and minor so far) and now I'm mapping out the I,IV,V chord 'pockets' for each major on a C6th tuning. Hope this helps,

Kenn

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

a few simple things to remember with chords is we all hear the numbers 1,4,5 and what that means say of you are in the key of C the C is your 1, now the next major chord thats mostly played is F so that becomes the 4, C,D,E,F see how that adds up, then the next major chord is G or the 5, C,D,E,F,G.
now here comes the point Im driving at anything thing between the 1,4,5, are minor chords, so its C,Dm,Em,F,G,Am,Bm,C. notice there was 7 steps now lets talk about what makes up the chord, its 1,3,5 so if you start at C as your 1 the notes would be C,E,G thats your C Chord. now G was the 5th in the step so lets add the 6th tone in thats a A note. you have C,E,G,A this is the C6th chord. lets talk about the 7th note that is a B so if you use C,E,G,B that is a C major 7th. but heres the tricky parts if you take that 7th note and flat it 1/2 step to a Bb then you have a C7th. now for your minor chord you take the third note of the scale and you flat it 1/2 step so C,Eb,G is C minor
talk about the chords one more time if you know that the song is in the key of C then any of these chords C,Dm,Em,F,G,Am,Bm will be in that song. hope this will help you get a better look at chord therory. although there is alot more to it this is the basics that you must drive in your head.
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Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Just one minor correction, the chord built from the 7th scale tone would be a minor flat 5 chord, (Bmb5 in the key of C example Joseph uses). A true Bm chord will almost never show up in the key of C and would sound pretty strange.

Without going into too much depth, those seven chords are all made from only notes from the C major scale.
That pattern holds true for any major key, so, for example, the key of D would yield chords: D,Em,F#m,G,A,Bm,and C#mb5. G would have: G,Am,Bm,C,D,Em,F#mb5.

It can be a bit confusing because any particular song may use some or almost all of these chords, or even other chords by temporarily moving out of the key, for example, many country songs have a 2 major (or D major in the key of C), often leading to the 5 (G in key of C) as in the chorus to "Don't you ever get tired of hurting me". There are all kinds of other temporarily out of key chords, I've heard many players refer to them as "out" chords...

The trick is to train yourself to hear the chords as they go by in the song, learning to relate the "number" position of the chord, regardless of the key. A good way to start is by getting a book or sheet music for songs you know and like, write down the chord progressions, and transpose them to other keys, and just play along using basic chord shapes in the different keys. For instance, the verse of "Rocky Top" in C would go: C F C Am G C.
Transpose to D: D G D Bm A D, G: G C G Em C G and so on.

As you gradually increase your catalog of songs, you will notice your "ear" recognizing similar progressions in different songs, and more importantly, recognizing the characteristic "sound" of chords within a key. (G is the 1 or root in the key of G, the 4 in the key of D, the 5 in the key of C, and sounds differently to the ear in each key, even though it's the same chord).

Time, patience, and letting your ear develop. As you advance, you will be amazed and thrilled at how the E9 tuning meshes with song theory to lay all the needed chords out for you.

Joseph Barcus · From: Volga West Virginia

thank you mark yes seems I did mess that tail end up didnt I. I wasnt going into the diminished chords. but Bm can be used depends on where youre wanting to go if you were to come backwards it would be C,Bm,Am for the Bm5b would be the odd sounding chord for this route again one should think basic first them add the icing later lol. I use the Dim sound approach alot more on the C6th neck then the E9th. but again I want to say that you are correct as well. odd thing about music is if you are sitting on a Bm chord and the bass is hitting a G note then it sounds like GMajor 7th dont it but have the bass change his note to a B and there you have the Bm sound. crazy stuff isnt it
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

As some people have already mentioned, in addition to the book, I've written a supplement for steel guitarist, with stuff from the book tabbed out an explanation of how the concepts in the book apply to the wa we use the pedals.

I will e-mail the for free to anybody who wants it.
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Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
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Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

As rarely as you'd use a 7mb5 chord in a standard country song, they're very common in jazz, and a great substitution as well. For instance, the 7mb5 of any key has the same notes as the 57 minus the root, so it's a great sub for a 1 to 5 change, and very easy to find- two frets back from the no pedals root chord with just the lever raising string 4 & 8.

So in C, if the song is moving from C to G, you can play any C chord grip at the 8th fret, move back to the 6th fret and add that knee lever. There are some great combinations with Gs and G7s at the 10th, 8th, and 6th frets. Fun stuff.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Oh, and definitely ask Mike for his supplement, very useful.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

A terminology nit-pick:

I haven't generally seen references to a "mb5" chord.
By definition, the chord with a minor third and a flatted fifth is a diminished chord.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Most of the time when I've seen a diminished chord called for, it seems the full diminished 7th is what they're looking for- spelled R,b3,b5,bb7. For usages where the chord is moved up 3 frets to invert the tones, all four are kind of necessary.
I think I'm in agreement with Wikipedia on this one:

Cal Sharp · From: the farm in Kornfield Kounty, TN

Learn to play bass, at least in your head. Then you'll know where and when the chords change, and you'll have a basic understanding of the song's structure which you can transpose to any other instrument.
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Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Okay, I'm gonna confuse a bunch of theory newbies by this next sentence, so please ignore if the preceding stuff makes your head spin. Wink

Chuck Thompson · From: Illinois, USA

i have also seen the term "half diminished" for m7b5 and the symbol o with a / through it to denote the same. sometimes it can be confusing but being familiar with any term from "off chord" "out chord" to 5 of 5 definately helps navigate the crazy music world we live in. Jimmie to your question: [my opinion] I think learning theory from any the sources these guys are mentioning sounds good. Dont worry about knowing it all overnight. Take little bitty bites at a time and try to focus on how you hear it and how you can apply or understand it as it relates to your instrument. Learn and understand scales. Go on to triads (simple 3 note chords) majot minor augmented diminished. Keys/chord progressions etc... then extended/altered chords.If someone uses a term that you dont understand, ask them to explain it. Even if it is something that turns out not to be "technically correct" it is something you can add to your pcoket of knowledge and likely find others using the term. You will eventually be surprised at how much of this stuff eventually starts to fit together and helps you. little bites at a time. It's fun

Chuck Thompson · From: Illinois, USA

In a way, learning music theory is as simple as understanding that the distance of 2" measured on a ruler is 2" no matter where on the stick you measure it, except you want to be able to hear 2" too Smile

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

Herb -

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

Russ... and Brint
I certainly agree that the notes C Eb Gb, when written in a score on staff paper, would be appropriately designated above as a Cdim.

In practical chord chart bandstand playing, without specific notes on the staff, most players would also include the A note (more technically the Bbb for the theory wonks Wink

), which is why so often the rule is stated, "a diminished chord can be repeated every three frets."

This is the reason I said "true, to an extent," in my earlier post. If the music stipulated the specific notes C Eb Gb, the Cdim designation would be correct, but the A note would be incorrect.

Off-topic, dealing with an "A" is easier than dealing with a "Bbb" though they're enharmonic, and "A" is contained in the C scale.

Sometimes correctness gets really difficult to deal with when there's no opportunity to rehearse. I was handed a chart recently for a song in Gb that for the bridge modulated briefly to the 4 key, so the bridge was written in Cb. I mentioned to the arranger that B would be easier to understand, and he conceded that, but said that Cb was the "correct" key. And since he was signing the checks, I had to agree, as did the horn players.
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Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Perhaps this free PDF book created by my friend and master musician John McGann will help?

http://www.johnmcgann.com/TabReadersGuideToStandard.pdf

Sam Marshall · From: Chandler, AZ USA

I learned theory best when I took piano lessons. It is a "linear" instrument in that it has no secondary or higher positions for equivalent pitches. That adds to the confusion.

Sam in AZ