The Downside Of Knee Levers

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

For quite some time, the opposing leverages of the pedal steel knee levers have been held suspect to many leg problems. True, the evidence is unclear by today's standards, that would call for solid proof, such as the inability to apply the usual pressure without experiencing pain. Earlier on, my concentration was limited to the incredibly sharp right angle steel or aluminum metals jutting into the sides of the knees. For years, I've avoided that trauma by covering the metal with foam rubber. The other area of concern, has moved to the undue stress placed upon tendons and bone structures at the hips. My concern centers around the worsening of discomfort brought on by arthritic related conditions. Perhaps a clever mechanical design of how the knees perform the changes is worthy of consideration.

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Hi Bill...that's why I set up like this...(scroll to bottom....)

http://gallery.me.com/johnnypez#100174&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=16

The foam works great also! Easier to play in shorts too.
Wink

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Rick,

Thanks for the interesting photos. I'll be checking those pics several times as a source of ingenuity that exists elsewhere at the present time. Special note: Your ringfinger suggests that the three fingerpicking methodology of playing steel, is pronounced in the photo.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Rick,

BTW: The 3rd fingerpick is still a nonadaptable method of playing steel. How do I know? I made a strong point of the issue, and the feedback is nil on that subject matter. The reason? Fetch me a dozen steel guitarists at random. Unless I'm making careless observations, the original and most popular method of playing pedal steel is the same as it was 60 years ago. Folksy guitarists who have acquired the need to involve more than two fingers while playing melody lines on the Spanish guitar, quickly realize the advantages of more is better, when taking up the pedal steel guitar. The system is full of obvious shortcomings, from my vantage point, while fingerpicks lead the way to better techniques.

richard burton · From: Britain

The advantageous application of helper springs will reduce the pressure required to activate the knee levers (and pedals)

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Well Bill it's not for everybody. There are some who say that more than two notes at once will make things muddy sounding. I think that sometimes that's probably true, but not always. Some of the better chiming techniques I've heard use the third finger's bare skin. In my case, I came to steel as a chord melody jazz finger style guitar player, so it was only natural to use the chops I already had. 4 note chords, especially on C6, is what I'm most interested in, but I can always do what the song dictates. I've had to learn to chime with the heel of my right hand BTW.

I guess we've already drifted from Knee Lever subject.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Rick,

By all means, I have no intention of drifting away from the original post concept. I could be more informative while ruing any mistakes that could have contributed to my extreme lameness in both hips. For more than one month, my search goes on for the cause. Doctor visits have not established any concrete evaluations. Yesterday, I played my steel for about an hour. It seemed to aggravate the problem to a greater extent later in the day. I am here to receive suggestions from others who may have
useful information from similar experiences.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Richard,

Thanks for the suggestion to reduce the force needed to apply the tone changes of the knee levers. I had a running battle with string gauges, and the advantages of reduced tension of springs that would cause a steel to become nonfuntional, should they be removed. One of the most difficult examples (IMO), would be the lowering of the bass strings on a Fender 1000, if actuated by a knee lever.

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Bill...have you ever tried experimenting with possibly sitting up a little higher so your knees and hips aren't both at 90 degree right angles? In my case, I started sitting up higher at a tilt because I often play steel with a 6 string strapped around my neck and sing too. Also, all my knee levers do double duty on both necks, so some are pretty stiff. I'm sure my hips couldn't handle sitting down low and trying to muscle my high tensioned levers. For me it's just more ergonomic to have my hips and knees bent at a more gradual angle, and I can have all the changes I want on my steel too.

richard burton · From: Britain

Bill,
I always put very long lower return springs on any all-pull that I have owned.

If a short spring (say, 2 1/2 inches) is extended another 1/2 inch, that is a 20% stretch, which gets progressively harder to pull as it gets longer.

A long spring (say, 10 inches) only has a 5% stretch to increase by the same 1/2 inch.

Therefore, on a standard spring, the initial effort to move the knee lever increases by 20% during the knee lever travel, while on a long spring, the initial effort stays the same, but only increases by 5% throughout its travel.

W. C. Edgar · Posted 10 Nov 2009 1:23 pm

I think if you're in that bad of shape you should maybe try the harmonica. Very Happy

WC Edgar

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

W.C. Edgar,

I love the harmonica. Strings instruments will always be my main interest. I'll try some new ideas before making switches. Take note of Rick's suggestion, whereby sitting higher and on a different angle may increase leverages.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Richard,

I will be exploring that which you have deduced of spring tension and its many facets. Interesting!

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Rick,

Years ago Faron Young bumped into the great Jerry Byrd sweeping a floor in a Nashville drug store. He moved closer to Jerry, and said: "Jerry, why don't you move to Hawaii, where you could find plenty of work." Little did Faron realize that Jerry had what could have been one of most accurately tuned steel guitars in Nashville. If the facts could ever be known, Jerry's music, produced without knee levers, was apparently forced out by steel shod players, utilizing pedals and knee changes. Mechanically produced tone changes are hardly if ever tuned properly, in the event of cabinet drops and other problem areas. I know of no other open invitation to leave the country, such as the one that Jerry experienced. Still, there are those who believe that Jerry made a great move for the better.

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

Yrs ago,when Tom Morrell was at MSA, Tom had skinny, bony legs. He put a flange on each lever anout 6" tall and 2" wide in order to distribute to force being applied. At that time I was having leg problems and he put the flanges on my levers and they were a great help. cc

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

C C johnson,

A collection of interesting events centering around the steel guitar, either lap or pedals may reveal that moderation still remains as the guideline to preventing well defined problems in the art of playing steel. Lack of reason can and does create changes to remind the player at intervals that trouble lies ahead. The most "durable" players among the successful pickers, are not "immune" to the problems experienced by lesser players. If the knee levers cause minute changes in the knees and hips, it will not be explained until someone of renown is caught up with the problem.

c c johnson · From: killeen,tx usa * R.I.P.

Bill, I always practice moderation. I never drink water without a Jim Beam chaser. cc

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Hi Alan....I'm just using pieces of foam pipe insulation from Home Depot that I cut to size to slip over the levers. Like I said, a couple of my Knee Levers are pretty stiff, so the foam makes them really comfortable without compromising any sensitivity or positive stops. At first I just put them on the really hard pulls, but then I thought what the heck? and put them on all of them. They don't look all that cool, but then again neither do I. Oh Well

Bo Legg · Posted 12 Nov 2009 3:31 am

Bill, I wondered why PSG players look like they are sitting on a commode straining to take a dump while playing the PSG. Now I Know. It's the pain. Oh! the humanity.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Bo Legg,

Please do not encourage more egging from distant players across open waters by submitting uncouth responses. There have been comments by very gifted players that have suggested a dissatisfaction with entries that make little sense.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Rick,

There is nothing more difficult to deal with, than a sorehead who refuses to listen to reason. I've had my share of dealing with obstinate individuals. The other option that has been omitted from these exchanges includes a swiveling knee lever that follows the angle of pressure applied.

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I find that knee levers never seem to be where my knees are. I don't know whether I'm a different shape than the norm, but I find that sitting in a position where I can work the knee levers and pedals I have to be a contortionist.

Rick Schmidt · From: Prescott AZ, USA

Hey no harm no fowl. I still use the toilet with 90 degree angles at my knees and hips with my elbows close to my side. I admit I have been keeping my eye on a riser for that too.

I figure as far as the years I've spent actually playing on stage as apposed to the "music room" in my lifetime, I might want to make allowances for all possible necessities. Razz

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Rick,

Thanks for the good-natured responses... makes me want to find you "plugged in" to catch some of your favorite instrumentals.

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