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Topic: 7th String F# as the Root |
Charles Kurck
From:
Living in Arkansas but Heaven is home
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 2:07 pm |
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Many of you know this stuff so this will be an easy discussion for you.
The F# note is famous for being the 9th tone of the E9th tuning, and it’s also
the 6th tone for the pedals down A chord.
Using the F# note on the seventh string as the root and raising strings 5 and 6 a full step
will give us an F# chord in the open position.
This will offer more possibilities than just moving the bar up 2 frets.
We raise string 5 from B to C# with the A pedal.
A change will be needed to raise string 6 from G# to A#.
Some folks have this change on the floor next to the A pedal.
This could be pedal zero or pedal four.
For this discussion I will call it the A# pedal.
The A B pedals toggle from the E chord to the A chord.
The A Pedal plus the F lever gives the 3rd inversion which is the C# chord.
Hold the A pedal while releasing the F lever and add the A# Pedal.
This will toggle from the C# chord to the F# chord.
You can play a C Chord at fret six which is two frets back from the open position.
There are more nuggets in this F# pay dirt.
Adding the E notes on strings 4 and 8 will give us the 7th chord.
Lower the E’s to D# and you will have the 6th chord.
Play the C6th chord at fret six.
Keep the E’s lowered and release the floor pedals.
This will toggle from the C6th chord to the F6th chord.
See the chart below for more possibilities.
Read about tuning problems here: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/012938.html
Compensators: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/003884.html
Last edited by Charles Kurck on 18 Jan 2015 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Priebe
From:
Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 2:31 pm
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This option has been on the U12 system as long as I can remember either on the 6 or 7 pedal. I have it on the 4th but that is just my preference. So, it's nothing new but certainly worth a mention or highlight especially as Charles has presented it.
_________________
Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 6:42 pm
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Nice chart.
This is a goldmine for the S12U "One Big Tuning" crowd.
We call the pedal that raises G#-to-A# and B-to-C# "Pedal-7" [P7], similar to the traditional C6th P7.
I can't wait to get home and try your Maj7 position with F# as the root! I don't think I ever used that partic1ular combo... using P7+F is classic "One Big Tuning!" for us S12U guys.
Thanks.  |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 8 Jan 2015 7:31 pm
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Great work above mapping everything out.
..ive had the G# to A# on my u12..on a knee lever for 15 years......ive decided to only pull string 6.
my copedent is 5x5 and packs a lot of punch. That change is a big part of the punch.
my gut tells me the OP will join the Uni club very soon.
Recognizing its power on E9...as others have indicated..also a powerful B6 change.
Irresistable. Pivotal.
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 10 Jan 2015 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Don Drummer
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2015 11:34 pm the next step+0
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| After digesting the familiar positions on E9 the next step is to find the tonic note in another position and work from there. You have the 7th string 2 frets away from the open position. The pedal down position yields the open 5th string 2 frets down from there. It just keeps getting more and more exciting. |
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Mike Flick
From:
California, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 12:15 am
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| If you can raise the sixth string to A# while you have the AB pedals down you get an F#+9 chord in the open position. |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 8:33 am
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| This is really cool- thanks! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 12:51 pm
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I assume we're talking equal temperament here. Sorry to use the t-word, but I don't see any of it working otherwise.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 1:14 pm
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There's also the B-A# lever
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Jim Priebe
From:
Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 2:03 pm
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Ian - If your assumption is correct then it's a shame no one told Segovia that the intervals on his guitar were 'out'.
The reality is we play to human audiences with 2 x X ears and they seldom say "your intervals are just wrong"!
With a pedal steel performance, getting the open string tuning "correct" is actually only a small but important part of the overall end result to the human ears.
Try using it (this change) - it works (once you get out of the 'woodshed').
_________________
Priebs GFI ('09)Short-Uni10. GFI ('96)Short-Uni SD11. ('86)JEM U12
www.steelguitardownunder.com |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 2:40 pm
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Like you, Jim, I play a uni 12 so it all works for me.
I was just wondering how it goes on the E9 and I was thinking theoretically about the two-F# problem. It occurs to me now if that you don't use ET, then you probably have a 7th string compensator on the A pedal anyway.
You're right about Segovia (and his audience)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Charlie McDonald
From:
out of the blue
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 3:29 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| I assume we're talking equal temperament here. Sorry to use the t-word, but I don't see any of it working otherwise. |
It may be Uni leading the front of psg toward ET.
I heard Segovia; his intervals were good.
No dog in the hunt.
Would the chart not work in meantone? Represents a compromise equal temperament. |
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David Donn
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 7:14 pm
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| I've been thinking about the F# "position" as well. Seems like the last position in a CAGED-like system for E9. If you have Open, AF, E lever, AB and lastly A pedal/G#-A#, you have the neck pretty much covered for chords. At least for major chords. |
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mike nolan
From:
Forest Hills, NY USA
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Posted 10 Jan 2015 10:00 pm
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| A couple of months after getting my first Uni, I started adding P7 to my S-10 E9 guitars. Nice work on the chart! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 11 Jan 2015 4:37 am
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I wonder if in the future we might see a growth in S10 unis. Might be worth a survey on the lines of how many 12-string players could get by without the bottom two strings. Or more positively, would be quite happy without them.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 11 Jan 2015 5:44 am
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My sense is you loose an awful lot of jazz and some rock without the bottom two strings. The may not be important to some. 12 strings is a complete instrument....imo...
In watching used guitars sell it appears there was an era where 11 string steels were making inroads. Strange that never got more traction. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 11 Jan 2015 7:01 am
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Interesting what you say. I'm not an experienced player, but as I work my way through instructional material for the C6, I find the 11th string used a great deal and the 12th quite seldom.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Charles Kurck
From:
Living in Arkansas but Heaven is home
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Posted 18 Jan 2015 1:17 pm Another Timber For The Bridge
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Knowledge plus talent equals good music.
When using 3 picks to play 4 note chords we usually strum the chord or omit one of the notes.
Sometimes we omit the 5th tone but omitting the 5th tone of the 6th chord makes it a minor chord.
C6th without the 5th tone becomes the Am chord.
When playing 6th chords, if needed, we can omit the root.
This works well in a band setting where other instruments are carrying the root.
In the chart below are some 6th chord positions requiring only 3 picks and no strumming.
I tune string 9 to B and string 10 to G#.
It’s not quite E9th and it’s not quite U12.
Being not quite in the box sometimes prompts me to think a little outside the box.
When it comes to steel guitar tunings, bridges are better than walls.
Here is another timber for the bridge.
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