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Topic: Song Stylists Lacking Today |
John P. Phillips
From:
Folkston, Ga. U.S.A., R.I.P.
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 7:44 am |
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Watched an interview on the tube this morning featuring Tanya Tucker and one of her comments raised a question in my mind. She said that there were very few song stylists these days.Not like singers of the past who were good stylists as well as good singers. It got me to thinking that this is something I haven't seen discussed here on the forum. And I think she's right ! It seems to be strangely missing today. That may be a contributing factor in the songs of today not sticking in our memory as well as the classic songs do. Am I nitpicking here or does this seem like a valid observation ? What is your take on this question. How do you feel about stylists in todays music ? Would it help today's artists. Does all the hype like fancy light shows, smoke bombs, ragged dress and all the rest just bury the music so far in the background that it is overlooked in today's "Money Market"?
What's your opinion ? |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 9:11 am
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| You could say that a "stylist" is someone who can't do it any other way, even if he tried; in other words a performer of limited ability. You could define "ethnic" in a similar way. If you are capable of doing it any differently, then you are a phony and not truly ethnic. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 9:13 am
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John, I agree, and I don't think you're nitpicking. The music business keeps devolving - case in point - the return of Garth Brooks.  |
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Jeff Evans
From:
Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 9:51 am Shopping for ragged dresses
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| Quote: |
| ... ragged dress ... |
I make all my own . . . all in one colour; all in one size.
On the crux of the topic, does overstatement and hyper-emoting constitute a style?
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| ... devolving - case in point - the return of Garth Brooks. |
Bare: If GB offers you 100Gs to sit through "Shamus" for four months, what will your answer be? |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 11:01 am
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I agree 100%. I've come to believe that there is basically two styles in today's country music: Male and Female. Like them or not: Buck, Willie, Johnny Cash, Ernie Ashworth, Paycheck, Loretta, Connie, Patsy, Conway, Del, Merle, etc... had very distinct styles. I don't hear that in today's singers. I have noticed that almost every new country song has a 6 minor in it. I guess maybe that's some kind of new protocol. 
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 11:09 am
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Once again I find myself rising to the bait offered by my erudite friend, Earnest Bovine (who, I'm sure, just says stuff to get a rise outta people). I don't think that a stylist is necessarily one who can not, if he/she wanted to, perform in any other manner than the one you've heard them use on recordings. Some are very accomplished in a variety of styles of delivery, but they are also savvy enough, in a marketing sense, to know that differentiation in the marketplace is (or at least used to be!) important for commercial success.
Earnest, you're still a curmudgeon ('not that there's anything wrong with that'). 
_________________
www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 11:24 am
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I honestly can't believe that all the southern/country accents I hear these days are real. I've been listening to country music for over a half-century, and believe me, there weren't even this many "drawls and "y'alls" back in the days of Kitty, Hank, Loretta, and Webb.  |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 1:10 pm
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| Jim Cohen wrote: |
| ... rising to the bait offered by my erudite friend, Earnest Bovine .. Some [stylists] are very accomplished in a variety of styles of delivery |
I didn't mean to bait you (not this time). In my experience "stylist" is a euphemism. Is it not a compliment. |
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Marc Friedland
From:
Fort Collins, CO
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 2:28 pm
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I can appreciate J C’s point of view, but feel I’m closer to E B’s line of thinking though I admit there may be exceptions to the rule.
Some times a singer doesn’t have the most enjoyable voice to listen to and/or perhaps he/she doesn’t have the best control over their intonation, but may have a very interesting delivery or engaging personality that comes through when they sing that makes a listener say yes, I enjoy listening to them sing, they’re entertaining.
I would typically call this person a stylist as compared to a singer or vocalist. Now that I think about it, this could also apply to musicians playing instruments, not just singers. Though I apply a definition to differentiate between a singer and a stylist or an instrumentalist and a stylist, it’s not my intention to assign a value judgment, saying one type of entertainer is more valuable than another.
Marc |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2009 2:34 pm
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| Barry Blackwood wrote: |
| John, I agree, and I don't think you're nitpicking. The music business keeps devolving - case in point - the return of Garth Brooks. |
I think Garth is already putting a band together with twin fiddles and steel guitar. He's going to come out all traditional country style with a lot of shuffles and ballads. Sort of a new Ray Price, Johnny Bush, Mel Tillis sound....... and that's when I woke up. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 11:10 am
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I'm with Jim Cohen on this. A stylist is not necessarily limited, and a versatile and technically excellent singer is not necessarily 'phony' if he or she decides to focus on one style and add their stylistic thing to it. My favorite example is Screamin' Jay Hawkins - he had an really fine operatic voice with excellent range and control, but generally preferred to stick to his extremely stylistic rock and roll schtick.
Sinatra and Pavarotti were certainly singers of a particular style - I think it would have been tough for either to convincingly sing in many styles like hillbilly or gutbucket blues. But as far as being limited - let me just say that I wouldn't mind having that kind of vocal 'limitation'.
This thread is a good example of how far people are apart on musical issues - one group laments the lack of stylists, and another argues that the term stylist is a non-complimentary euphemism.
I personally also lament the lack of stylistic strength in modern singing. To me, technical singing excellence and stylistic tendencies are orthogonal to each other. One can be technically excellent and stylistic, one or the other, or neither. The only one I don't care for is neither.
My opinions, of course. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 1:56 pm
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| Quote: |
| If GB offers you 100Gs to sit through "Shamus" for four months, what will your answer be? |
Jeff, I don't know what "Shamus" is, but for that kind of green, I'd most likely say yes anyway.
Also, well said, Mark F. |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 3:51 pm
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| Barry Blackwood wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If GB offers you 100Gs to sit through "Shamus" for four months, what will your answer be? |
Jeff, I don't know what "Shamus" is, but for that kind of green, I'd most likely say yes anyway.
Also, well said, Mark F. |
I think "Shamus" is that cloth you use to wash your car. I saw it on TV. Anyway, the 100Gs sounds attractive, but would we be required to stay sober? |
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 6:50 pm
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I sure there are people we could call stylists, but was Johnny Cash called a stylist, or any of the early ones? I think then is was called the sound. He had a unique sound.
For me, that's the crux of it. All the singers must fit within the confines of the mold.
Let's bring back the different kind of country voices and let them rise or fall by our vote, not the record companys.
_________________
heavily medicated for your safety |
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Jody Sanders
From:
Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 8:53 pm
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| Hang in there Rick. Jody. |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 10:18 pm Re: Shopping for ragged dresses
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| Jeff Evans wrote: |
On the crux of the topic, does overstatement and hyper-emoting constitute a style? |
Yes.....it's called Conway Twitty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67GSo3MxGi0&feature=related
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com
Last edited by Chris LeDrew on 17 Oct 2009 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris LeDrew
From:
Canada
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 10:22 pm
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| Rick Campbell wrote: |
| I have noticed that almost every new country song has a 6 minor in it. I guess maybe that's some kind of new protocol. |
Naaa......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxQbvSjQy9A
Nothing changes but our perception.
_________________
Jackson Steel Guitars
Web: www.chrisledrew.com |
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Walter Stettner
From:
Vienna, Austria
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Posted 17 Oct 2009 11:48 pm
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Ask yourself a simple question: How many of yesterday's country stars with unique voices would get a chance to start a career these days?
Kitty Wells, Roy Acuff, Bill Anderson, Skeeter Davis, Hank Snow, ET, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson and many more - they had (have) unique voices that wouldn't fit in today's uniform pattern well enough to give them chance, nevertheless, they are "heroes" who are celebrated in special radio and TV programs and are listed as major influences by many of today's stars...
Kind Regards, Walter
_________________
www.lloydgreentribute.com |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2009 11:28 am
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I don't think talent and style has as much to do with success today as it did in the past. So many of the singers sound alike now, and some are huge stars, while others not so much, or not at all.
It used to be that most all records got some airplay and if people liked them and requested to hear them again, they became popular. Nowdays, only the songs chosen by the major labels ever get a shot at FM radio. I guess there's a lot more material being recorded now than before.
I think it's all in the promotion and marketing, and of course how much money they want to put into it. I believe the industry could make Elmer Fudd or Donald Duck into a country singing star, if they wanted to.
It's akin to the fashion styles. I remember when my mother and sister couldn't wait until the new JC Penny's and Sears catalogs came in the mail so they could see what kind of clothing was going to be in style for the season. Nevermind what you like,.....it all about what you're told you're supposed to like, in order to be cool. Kind of the tail wagging the dog.
We all know great singers that will never make it into stardom because they don't have the backing of the industry. I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I do believe that's pretty much the way it is.
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James Cann
From:
Phoenix, AZ
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Posted 21 Oct 2009 6:31 pm
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| Quote: |
| I honestly can't believe that all the southern/country accents I hear these days are real. |
Ain't it the truth!--and if that weren't enough, the formulaic jingoism in so many lyrics is laughable: all this prideful emoting about the hard life, homegrown front porch harmony, momma and daddy, church and chicken on Sunday, farm-bred morality, homesickness for all of it, etc., etc., by singers who have little or no real connection to it. However, don't they ever latch onto the schtik because what else do they have? |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 23 Oct 2009 9:30 am
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Ernest Bovine, "You could say that a "stylist" is someone who can't do it any other way, even if he tried;"
Earnest, I respect you and your talent, but, you can't really believe what you said! Chalker and others who were stylist's did it both ways in order to make a living.
What you are saying is: "Those who can do it play, but, those who can't, teach.....a belife that is not verified by analysis.
_________________
"FROM THEN TIL' NOW" |
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Joachim Kettner
From:
Germany
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Posted 23 Oct 2009 12:15 pm
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Keith Richards once said something like: Songs are in the air, you just got to pick them up. Sometimes I think the air has become pretty thin.
But on the other hand there are still great songs being written, you just have to search a little harder. |
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Billy Tonnesen
From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
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Posted 1 Nov 2009 10:14 pm
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| IMHO I consider a good vocalist as someone who pretty much sings on the beat and you can anticipate when to play fills. What I consider a type of stylist is when they sing and phrase ahead of or behind the beat, finally catching up. It makes it harder to figure when to play fills. You can either leave a big empty spot or clash with them playing at the same time they finally decide to complete or delay a phrase. |
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Joe Miraglia
From:
Jamestown N.Y.
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Posted 3 Nov 2009 3:33 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| I honestly can't believe that all the southern/country accents I hear these days are real. I've been listening to country music for over a half-century, and believe me, there weren't even this many "drawls and "y'alls" back in the days of Kitty, Hank, Loretta, and Webb. |
I think what I said to a young male singer the other day is true. You are a good singer,and writing some good songs,but you will have a very hard time making it in Nashville,or in country music coming from the North. I can,t name anyone from the North that has made it big in country music.I think some people think that country music is a southern thing. Joe |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 3 Nov 2009 3:54 pm
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| Joe Miraglia wrote: |
| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| I honestly can't believe that all the southern/country accents I hear these days are real. I've been listening to country music for over a half-century, and believe me, there weren't even this many "drawls and "y'alls" back in the days of Kitty, Hank, Loretta, and Webb. |
I think what I said to a young male singer the other day is true. You are a good singer,and writing some good songs,but you will have a very hard time making it in Nashville,or in country music coming from the North. I can,t name anyone from the North that has made it big in country music.I think some people think that country music is a southern thing. Joe |
Joe, that's a good point. I can't think of anyone either, but there has to be some. Patsy Cline was from Winchester, VA, that's about as far north as I can think of right now, but that's a far cry from NY, and New England.
I don't know where Kid Rock and Darius Rucker are from, they might blow your theory all to pieces.
Someone please tell us some country stars that were from up north. This is a good subject.
NOTE: I started another thread regarding this. Please respond there. |
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