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Topic: My latest homebrew creation |
Mac Knowles
From:
Almonte,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Oct 2009 7:15 pm |
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Hey folks…just thought I’d post a few pictures of my latest creation. As you’ll notice, it’s one of my double changer guitars. Triple raise, triple lower with 3/5 pedals/levers and weighs 28 lbs.. The bird’s eye maple is over 100 years old. The neck is made of 1” butternut. The maple is ½” thick and laminated to ¼” MDF board. Since the maple plank was over an inch thick, it seemed a waste to reduce it to ¾” , so I resawed it into two ½ “ boards The pickup is a single coil, I wound it to about 12k, individual ceramic magnets for each pole……sounds good to me anyway, lots of power, and nice bass, mids and top end too through my Session 400.
My setup is a little different on this one….sort of an altered E9th. It’s taking me awhile to get onto this tuning but I love the bluesy stuff with the RKR as well as some great jazz chord stuff on the bottom end (well, what I can play anyway!)
Thanks for lookin’
Mac
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 3:41 am
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We are really getting some nice, and interesting ideas lately. Nice work Mac.
Bill
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 4:25 am
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| Innovative indeed! |
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Jesse Leite
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 7:26 am
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The Jackson Blackjack is similar to this, although I was told it actually moves the tuning keys rather than having changer fingers at the keyhead end. Is this true? Anyway, what are the advantages/disadvantages to having raises on one end and lowers at the other; as opposed to the typical scissor type changer fingers?
P.S. I love the colours and wood on your guitar! |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 7:49 am
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| The strings follow a very convoluted path at the keyhead, I would be concerned about strings returning accurately to pitch after being raised/lowered |
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Mac Knowles
From:
Almonte,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 8:50 am
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I've built about a dozen guitars with the double changers. I've also built a couple with the conventional hinged type. I don't know why exactly, I just prefer the single piece finger like the old pull/release system. It's so hard to tell whether the guitar you just built sounds like it does because of the fingers, the wood, the pickup, the weather, whatever. In my mind the actual mechanical connection of the fingers to the rest of the guitar has a lot to do with the resulting sound. I do know that on this particular guitar, I originally had a regular roller nut assembly on it and was planning on a pull/release single piece finger on the head end. The guitar was playable but I really didn't like the sound too much, seemed sort of dead. So I built the keyhead changer parts etc. put it all back together and Wow! The difference in the sustain particularly was amazing. As far as strings not returning to pitch, this doesn't seem to be a problem at all. And also splits don't seem to be a concern either. The resulting note from a raise and a lower, although not perfect, is close enough for my ears anyway without compensators of any kind.
Sorry if this sounds a bit like a sales pitch. I just happen to like the way it works. I've got a 12 string universal in the works now....probably won't be playing it though for a few months at least.
Thanks for your comments
Mac |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 5:50 pm
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Mac, What an innovative idea you have here! You do some lovely work, both on the wood part and the metal.
I would love to come and take a closer look at this neat looking double changer idea first hand. And bring my home built with me just to show off a more run-of-the-mill look!
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 5:51 pm
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Jesse
At around 2 min, you can see the keys moving, Bobbe does some neat finger pickin too.
BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhI3Ax_85-A
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Jesse Leite
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 6:21 pm
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That's an interesting video Bill, thanks for the link! That's pretty neat that the tuning keys themselves rotate like that. I wonder if this really simplifies the mechanics though, as opposed to the more traditional changer fingers.
All this is so fascinating. I have a feeling that down the road I am going to turn into a PSG builder. I have to learn to play the thing first though! Maybe in my retirement I will give it a go  It's such a complicated instrument to learn! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 2 Oct 2009 8:26 pm
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Man, that is very cool. Excellent work, Mac. Very clean, innovative.
Bill, thanks for the video link; I'd never seen a changer like that in action before. Makes complete sense to me.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 4:14 am
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As a retired machinist/mechanic, I always like to be able to touch things before I condemn or say anything negative about them. That statement is in no way meant to be negative about anything on this thread, there are some really neat innovations/improvements being done lately, an idle mind is a wasted mind and there seems to be an abundance of busy minds lately. If you want to try something and someone says, it been tried and wont work, try it anyway if your way is different, your way may work.Some time you have to make mistakes to see the improvement.
Remember, a person that says he/she never makes mistakes doesn't do anything.
Bill
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Eldon Cangas
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 4:46 am
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Wow, what a neat idea gotta love this place. Great pics Mac as a first time builder you've given me lots to chew on about the nut end on my guitar.
Bill, good comments and food for thought if we all did things the "old way" then very little would improve.
Thanks! Eldon |
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Mac Knowles
From:
Almonte,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 7:19 am
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Hey folks, thanks for all the comments etc. Bill, very profound words there. Gotta love this place!
Bent....it would sure be great to have a visit from you if you're ever down Ottawa way. Back to the guitar, I'm not trying to impress anyone with the way I like to build these creatures. I still miss my long time friend Rusty Walker. His name was really Bernie Dunn and we were friends since we were about 10 years old. He was from my old home town of Richmond Quebec. We used to knock about ideas on changing the way steels were built. We actually tried building a hydraulic mechanism and an air operated one way back in the 60's. As you'll notice from the pics there's only 6 lowering springs and bellcranks for them on this guitar. I wanted to see how it was working before making any more parts. The idea is good, probably no worse or better than the Jackson setup. As I said, I've made a few guitars like this. I'm not done with experimenting on the lowering stuff yet. The little rollers the string goes under are a bit of a question, too small and they break strings, too big and it's a pain to put the string through when you're changing them. The rollers on this guitar are electric bass ball ends off of old strings I had. Another idea I've tried but haven't got it right yet is having stop screws on the top of the guitar to adjust the stop (tuning) for the string when lowered. I'll figure this out yet if it's at all possible to do.
Anyway I've rambled on enough for now I guess..
Cheers,
Mac |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 9:08 am
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Mac,
My comments were neither positive nor negative, it's just that I am an engineer who has also made a few homebuilt steels, and, from finding out the hard way, when a string follows a convoluted path it is very difficult to attain constant tuning stability.
Whatever, if it works I applaud you.
I have an 'off the wall' idea for your lowering changer tuners:
Add a section to the finger, so that it will fit in a milled cutaway in the neck, just past the first fret. (don't mill the top of the neck, leave it so it looks standard)
Have some short setscrews in the neck, on the first fret (to avoid unnecessary visual clutter), and tune the lowers with these setscrews  |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 9:12 am
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I've just realised that my idea is so 'off the wall' that it won't work 
The setscrews would have to go in a tapped hole in the finger extensions, and bear down on the body
Holes would be needed in the fretboard (along the first fret) to access the setscrews |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Mac Knowles
From:
Almonte,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 9:25 am
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Richard.
I was thinking about that sort of thing. The only problem with that is that it's on the wrong side of the finger. When a string lowers, the roller raises, and the finger on the fretboard side of the guitar moves down, or back depending on whether you're looking at the bottom end, or an arm attached to it sort of parallel to the fretboard. The setscrew won't work as a stop, only way would be a nut or something below the little arm. And to line it up right the setscrew would be underneath a string, perhaps hard to adjust. I tried extending the piece where the rollers are out a bit and putting a bar over them with 10 setscrews. It worked not bad but looked stupid and just made one more hinderance to changing strings.
I rather like your suggestion though....I'm going to think more on this approach...thanks
Mac |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 9:30 am
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Mac Knowles
From:
Almonte,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 9:32 am
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Richard,
You were thinkin' and postin' while I was writin'!
The tapped hole in the finger extension is not a bad idea though. I wouldn't mind small holes in the fretboard...they would have to be sort of elongated as the extension would move in a small arc, right.
Anyway....brain's tired, it's 1:30 PM and time for a small siesta! Talk to you later
Mac |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 9:41 am
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Mac,
There's another way that you could acheive a lower, with less string convolution, with a very slight modification to your idea:
Have the string go over over the finger, as normal, but then have it go over the second roller, and on to the machine head. (obviously, the position of the second roller must be such that there is a sufficient 'break' angle of the string).
Have the finger held hard in the 'up' position with a spring, and pull the finger towards the changer end of the steel to lower the string. |
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Mac Knowles
From:
Almonte,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 12:11 pm
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Richard,
Back up from the siesta...
Your sketch is good. Your latest idea, I don't know. As you can imagine I've already spent a lot of time on this and drawn many sketches etc. over the last couple of years. I can't visualize the string going over two rollers and still somehow making an angle in it that could be altered to lower the string. You know, all of these ideas fall short of what we really should be doing. We really should be inventing a mechanism that holds the string on the ball end, and actually pulls it straight out to raise and relaxes it to lower. Then you could be using regular bridges etc. like a regular guitar. The old Harlin and other early changers where you just had to adjust screws on the horizontal finger extensions to change the "pulls" is still a great idea. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out how to transfer that horizontal movement to a rod operated undercarriage...sort of gave up temporarily. Oh well, I've had my musical instrument repair shop for about 50 years. You wouldn't believe all the stuff people bring me to fix for them. I don't get too excited about pedal steel mechanics, but just like to design and build stuff when I get the urge.
Talk to you later, Mac |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 12:21 pm
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If you all would put up with my scribblings, here's an idea born out of Richard's sketch:
On second thought where it says Nut(fixed) this may as well be a roller nut.
String comes over top of nut and down through under 'roller'. Roller is on a small axle on a little plunger down thru body and is affected by a cam attached to either a push or pull rod that again is attached to pedal/KL. The plunger is forced upward and thereby lowers the string.
I share Richard's concern that these might be too sharp angles for the strings, lending itself to string breakage. However, I think that the angle in the sketch is grossly exaggerated
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 12:37 pm
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of course I didn't consider a means of returning the string to neutral
How about:
a compression spring around the plunger, on top of plunger block and up under the body?
or
have the cam fixed to plunger by way of pivot and a return spring on changer rod pulling it back to neutral?
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Mac Knowles
From:
Almonte,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Oct 2009 1:26 pm
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Man have I ever got you guys dreamin' up ideas today!
You know, the whole idea is essentially the same as pushing down on a string on a regular guitar or a steel guitar between the nut and the tuning machine head anyway. I've thought some about the "Scruggs peg" idea too. I made a couple for my 5 string 40 years ago. Moved the string sideways and changed the tuning of a couple of the strings. Worked great and I used it for years trying to copy Buck Trent stuff.
You know there's nothing really wrong with the split finger changers that's on 95% of the guitars that are made today. Even the pull/release single piece fingers are fine, except for the fact that you can't (?) additionally lower a string that's already being raised at the same time. I've thought about that limitation some as well....thinking that maybe the place to solve that problem is perhaps under the guitar with the rod/bellcrank mechanism. Somhow release a raise partway under there with another lever etc. Oh well....dream on. That's what we over 70 bunch are good at!Beats watchin' TV anyway.
Mac |
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