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Topic: AutoCAD for Home Builders |
Eldon Cangas
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 27 Sep 2009 11:41 am |
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Hey Folks,
Bent's been mentioning autocad programs for drawing up and modeling your parts before cutting any metal. There's lots of expensive ones out there but this one (CadStd Lite v3.7.1) shows some promise. Send me a private email & I'll show you what I was able to do in a couple of hours with it. 75%W of it was learning what the program can do. I haven't tried to rotate parts yet. WIll keep you posted.
Eldon |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 27 Sep 2009 12:32 pm
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Eldon,
I find it quite a steep learning curve to get on to design software at this time in my life. I don't know how ya'll feel about that, but for me, I think I will let others do the drawing for me. I am already in touch with a new forum member, Jesse Leite, and he knows his way around both AutoCad and a program he speaks highly of, Inventor. He is a young 20's and so very motivated. Inventor will draw up things in 3D; move things around and even move the actual parts in real time so you can see if everything fits.For example draw up the linkage from changer finger to pedal/KL and watch it move through the raise/lower process.
Jesse, by the way, just bought an old BMI from the US. He is a guitar teacher of trade and doesn't know a thing about steel. It will be very interesting for me to show him what little I know, and watch his progress.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 28 Sep 2009 6:14 am
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Of course I couldn't contain myself. I had to download the free version and try it out. Of course, I am stuck here with just an arc and a line, and the line won't go away. In other words I am stumped!
Maybe if a few of you would dl this prog, we could help each other out just like the guys over in Band-in-a Box...
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Eldon Cangas
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 28 Sep 2009 9:45 am
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Bent,
1) Left click (select) the "X" from the right hand side - Edit Options.
2.)Position cursor over the line you want to delete and left click. It should change colour.
3.)Right click - it's gone.
There's also a relatively comprehensive help file when you open it up.
Infectious isn't it??
Warmest Regards!
Eldon |
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Eldon Cangas
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 28 Sep 2009 9:47 am
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I haven't been able to join arcs and lines together yet.
Eldon |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Sep 2009 12:23 pm
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Eldon, I have been talking to Jesse about this since he is quite adept at AutoCad and Inventor, and partly Solidworks. I tried to describe this program (CadStd) and he thinks it might be going towards obsolete. So it might be that we are wasting our time on an outdated program. I guess nowadays it is all to do with 3D and moving parts around.
Now that I have bumped this one up to the top, perhaps Jesse will see it and when he has a chance, enlighten us.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Jesse Leite
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Sep 2009 3:39 pm
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Ahh, here's the thread 
For those of you who are interested, here's a bit more about what I was telling Bent. Hopefully this will give you a feel for why I think 3D based mechanical design is so fascinating....
You mention Solidworks. I'm a bit rusty with Solidworks. I only used Solidworks for about 2 months. As for Inventor, it is probably Solidworks' biggest competition. Inventor is made by Autodesk (the same company who founded AutoCAD). Both Solidworks and Inventor are expensive, but for the manufacturing world they are industry standards. I am sure there are cheaper (and maybe free alternatives), but I cannot say I have used any. More on this later. Judging by the fact that you guys are drawing lines and arcs, I assume the CadStd Lite program is 2D based rather than 3D based like Solidworks and Inventor.
What sets these programs apart from AutoCAD and the traditional 2D program is that in 2D you are restricted to drawing lines, arcs, etc. This makes for a fine way to print professional looking blueprints. However, by drawing in 3D, you can see the whole thing as solid 3D models and assemblies, From those 3D models and assemblies, you can put together an assembly of parts, and make your 2D blueprints from those 3D assemblies.
Here is one major reason why modelling in 3D is really cool. Let's say you model all of your parts for your project steel guitar in 3D. Each changer assembly has three parts, and each steel guitar uses 10 exact copies of the changer. Imagine down the road you decide to modify the design of your changer. As soon as you change the 3D model in Solidworks or Inventor, all of main assembly files and 2D blueprints are automatically updated with the new parts. You could imagine how efficient this would be for certain industries who are building machines containing thousands of parts. In the "old" days (of both drafting by hand, AND using 2D drafting programs such as AutoCAD), if you need to update the changer assebmly, you need to MANUALLY update the changer in every drawing view it appears in. What a hassle (especially if that means you have to manually update hundreds or thousands of drawings. I've had to do this in 2D before, and although it was a hassle, I had to keep telling myself, "at least I'm not using a pencil and eraser"! :O
Another reason why I think 3D modelling is really useful is that being able to see a 3D representation of your ideas on screen can really help you visualize whether an idea will work or not. If you have the right software and mate the parts together correctly, you can even see how the moving parts will interact with each other. I was telling Bent that if we modelled his whole steel in 3D (which I think we could do in a couple evenings), you could even take the mouse and drag one of the knee levers, and then watch all the linkages, rods and changer movement. Very cool! This IS more of a luxury though. If you are designing a real intricate mechanism, it can be really handy to watch the screen for colliding parts, etc.!
A third reason why 3D is so cool is that it can help you design parts with manufacturing processes in mind. Instead of drawing lines and arcs which together make the finished part, you instead follow a procedure something like this. First you start with an oversized hunk of metal (or wood, etc). Then you start "machining" material away to sculpt your part. ....Of course this is done virtually on screen. You might save a few scrap parts by drawing parts up like this first
I guess you can see why I consider 2D "a thing of the past". It is by no means useless, but once you learn 3D you will never go back. AutoCAD is still however useful for making electrical drawings. I never learned how to do electrical drawings, but mechanical purposes I would say that 3D is the way to go. Of course, the downside to all of this is the steeper learning curve for 3D as opposed to 2D.
So back to program choices... for you steel builders out there, I would be interested in finding a cheaper (or free) solution that might help you design your next steel. I will be drawing up a few parts for Bent so that he can see how 3D works. Maybe we can post a drawing & model or two for you all to see soon.
Sorry for the novel! 
Jesse |
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Jesse Leite
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Sep 2009 5:32 pm
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| Bent Romnes wrote: |
| Jesse, by the way, just bought an old BMI from the US. He is a guitar teacher of trade and doesn't know a thing about steel. It will be very interesting for me to show him what little I know, and watch his progress. |
I love your playing Bent! I have already learned so much, and I appreciate that you've been taking your time to show me all the ins and outs!
(I am amazed at how closely knit the steel guitar community is. Everyone seems to willing to help one another out. My friend Bent is sure a testament to that fact!) |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 29 Sep 2009 6:11 pm
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Jesse, thanks for the nice words. Really, this has been a couple of fun days for me. Just us changing the copedent gives you inside knowledge about your steel and how it works. You having machine shop background, will make your learning curve all the more gentle.
I am quite awed to have a 'student' of sorts. I wouldn't know how to go about teaching someone who did not know any music. Jesse is a guitar teacher, so all I had to tell him when I showed him the neck of the steel was: The steel is tuned to an open E chord. Pretend that the steel bar is your left index finger when you do a bar chord on your 6 string. With that introduction, Jesse knew the basic neck of the steel.
I am glad that you will be getting a solid introductory lesson from Bob Egan of Blue Rodeo.
Also, it will be very interesting and educational to see what Inventor can do. I'll be amazed to see a changer finger or key head take shape right before my eyes...
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Earl Foote
From:
Houston, Tx, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2009 9:12 am
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| I find that AutoCad and SolidWorks each have their strong points. I like to detail manufacturing drawings in AutoCad. I like to use SolidWorks to see how parts fit together in an assembly and to use Simulation (a FEA program that works within SolidWorks) to test parts under load and see where the high stress areas are. Myself and the engineers in my department are set up with both programs. |
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Bill Ford
From:
Graniteville SC Aiken
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Posted 30 Sep 2009 9:17 am
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Check this one out, it's free...Bill
http://sketchup.google.com/
_________________
Bill Ford S12 CLR, S12 Lamar keyless, Misc amps&toys Sharp Covers
Steeling for Jesus now!!! |
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Jesse Leite
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 30 Sep 2009 1:22 pm
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Earl, not to debunk AutoCAD... like I mentioned it is not useless by any means. However, I never used AutoCAD to detail prints because I find Autodesk Inventor's detail mode to be much more tailored than AutoCAD since it is still dealing with solid models. As for Solidworks, I've used it, but I am not very fast/comfortable with it in comparison to Inventor. Anyway, you probably know more than I.... answer this for me if you can. If I change a part to have a different sized radius for example, Inventor changes every view in every drawing automatically for me to reflect that change. If you are going back to AutoCAD for detailing, can you get AutoCAD to automatically update all of your drawings? Or once you import your model into AutoCAD you are set? Since AutoCAD is not 3D based, I would assume you cannot do this?
Also, I have heard of Google's Sketchup a few years ago. Back then when I tried it I wasn't really impressed. It didn't seem very powerful. Now looking at the features list, it may work great for a smaller project like building a steel guitar (dare I say "smaller project"!). It looks like you can precisely dimension models now. I will have to check it out. Of course, Inventor and Solidworks are standards; no competition! They are both multi-thousand dollar programs! However for the average project steel builder, that's hefty! Has anyone else here used Sketchup? |
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Earl Foote
From:
Houston, Tx, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2009 5:22 pm
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| When I use AutoCad, I know what views I want to create ahead of time and I know that I won't need to change them. For some of my drawings I use blocks from an extensive library that we have created. It's just a matter of inserting blocks to get the drawing that I need. SolidWorks and Inventor let you change drawings very quickly. It's just that sometimes I don't need that functionality. Our sister company has several seats of Inventor that are unused at the moment and I might snare one to check it out. I set up our department with SolidWorks because it seems to be easier to find people that know SolidWorks. I like Autodesk products and SolidWorks. I started my 3D experience with SolidEdge which is a program similar to SolidWorks. I really like drawing by hand the best but when it comes time to revising a hand drawing ... |
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John Maggard
From:
Cincinnati Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 12:33 am 3D stuff
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Hi guys - just found this thread...I use 3dStudio Max on a fairly regular basis...another program from Autodesk who also make Inventor and Autocad. It's an awesome modeling and animation program and I'd be happy to answer anything that I can, PM if you'd like. I've got some samples here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22294052@N05/sets/72157615143312131/
including a quick study I used to figure out how and where to use some Emmons knee kits on a Domland project guitar.
John |
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John Maggard
From:
Cincinnati Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 12:11 pm
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Jesse,
I haven't checked out Sketchup but I'll look it up... |
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 6:26 pm
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I have used AutoCad, nearly from it's inception. Our first seat was in 1985. Now retired, I have version 14, old now I know, but it works for me. And speaking of houses, I have designed my summer house in New York state, now being built, in Autocad. It's a 1500 sq ft house with 2 car garage in the middle of the woods.
The only downside, the taxes there are 3 times more than my house here in LA, and they are both about the same size. Go figure.
_________________
heavily medicated for your safety |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 21 Nov 2009 7:51 pm
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| Ken Lang wrote: |
The only downside, the taxes there are 3 times more than my house here in LA, and they are both about the same size. Go figure. |
Nothing AutoCad could do about that eh, Ken...
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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