Homebuilders? Do you make your changers?

Greg Gefell · From: Upstate NY

For all the people who build their own guitars...
Where do you buy your changers? Or do you make those as well?
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Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Greg. There some guys here that have the equipment and knowledge to build their own, but I would think most homebuilders use "readymade" changers... Not cheap, but readily available, and much easier.

btw, your band name intrigued me, so I checked out your myspace page, and website.. Wow, what an oustanding band you have. Easily among the very best bands I have heard posted here by a forum member.
I hope the gig situation is better up in Rochester than it is down here in the southern tier. No gigs, no where to play, no one to play with, and no one that wants to hear it anyway,here in southern NY.
Your band has to be the class of the Rochester area!!
You guys are truly exceptional and I wish you every success bob
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Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

Greg, as Bob says, some people do build the changer. I have only just completed building the first part of one. It was only possible due to the help I received here in the forum. I asked some really naive questions and received more that enough answers to allow me to get to the stage where I have now built a single changer finger and its mechanism. I now need to make a few changes to the design then go ahead and build a full set.
I am not trying to put you off as regards building your own changer. But you do need to be aware that some knowledge and access to tools is required. If you have these then you are most of the way there.
In my case, I want to build a PSG even more than I want to own one.
I don't know if anyone has actually published a design for a changer (dimensioned drawings) but if they have I would be more than willing to buy the book.
If you do decide to go ahead and design/build your own changer I would love to know how you are progressing as time goes on. I am sure that many others on the forum would be interested too.

Regards, Allan.....
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A. J. Martinez · From: Ca.

Greg...contact Marty Smith ,He is a forum member. Marty can make you anything you want. His work is flawless! A.J.

richard burton · From: Britain

When I started making steels, many years ago, I didn't know anything about them, and hadn't heard the terms 'all pull' and 'push pull' at all.

I designed my changer from scratch, and now realise that it was in fact a glorified 'pull release' type mechanism.

It worked very well, for my fairly simple copedent, and the changer fingers were very easy to make.

One area to make sure that you get right, of course, is the radius where the string goes over.

I had access to a surface grinder, and I made a little jig for the finger to pivot around, and used the side of the grinding wheel, winding the finger into the wheel in very small increments

Anders Eriksson · From: Mora, Dalecarlia, Sweden

One place to look is freepatentsonline

You need to register to be able to see the PDF with drawings, but it's free!

Then do a search for Pedal Steel Guitar and you will get a number of patents on changers and other parts of the guitar.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/

// Anders
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Ernest Cawby · From: Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.

Mike weenick makes every thing on his guityar but the Strings, legs, and pickups.

ernie

Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

Wow! This thread is making me feel good. I feel soooo vindicated. Very Happy

Richard, I have made a set of fingers, plus a couple of spares for my experiments, and I used exactly the same method as you did. After grinding them I clamped them all together and polished them to a mirror shine and they look good.

Anders, you are so right about freepatentsonline too. I 'screengrabbed' a couple of drawings off that site and scaled them to suit in a CAD program then used bits from various different drawings to make my experimental parts.

Greg, I don't know how up on this you are but have you looked at the drawings that Bud Carter has made available? That is a wonderful way to get in to the basic operating principle.
http://www.steelguitar.com/askbud/askbudin.htm

Regards, Allan.....
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Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

On the 3 steels that I built, I made the changers from scratch. Like Richard B. , after rought-cutting the alum. finger on the band saw, I rigged up a pivot for the disc sander and sanded the rounds to teh approximate radius. Final uniformity as achieved by mounting all 10 fingers on an axle and squeezingthe assembly in the vise. Then I used a length of 120/240 emery cloth. The raise/lower bars are tough to make if all you have is a hacksaw and chisel. For 100% uniformity of all these parts a guy needs a milling machine for sure.
On the other hand it is possible to make all this with regular shop tools, jigs and a bit of ingenuity.
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Stuart Tindall · From: England, UK

Hi

Like the others, I built my own with little prior knowledge on pedal steel mechanics, and it works superbly well,

Stuart.

Bent Romnes · From: London,Ontario, Canada

Stuart, that is a work of art! How come others' projects turn out just a wee bit neater than your own??
Tell me please, the materials used in the raise/lower bars...the thickness as well as type(stainless, aluminum etc etc) Also if you would, HOW thse parts were made in order to achieve that great uniformity.
Bent
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Stuart Tindall · From: England, UK

Bent, it's very kind of you to say those words, but we have all seen your projects and they are second to none.
Regarding material, I used 1/16 inch stainless steel for the raise and lower fingers as I find that any thicker and it is difficult to bend. I added a bronze wear piece, they were just 1/4 inch long cut off a piece of 3/8 inch (I think)round bronze rod. This was riveted to the finger, having been shaped to fit first.
The control arm is 1/4 inch aluminum, not sure what grade.
I cut them all out by hand, then filed them to the scriber marks very accurately using very sharp files. It is slow but accurate. After finishing I actually welded a small triangular piece of stainless bar to each lower finger to seperate them and prevent them catching each other,

Stuart

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

God you guys are nuts. Whoa!

(the good kind of nuts....) Cool

Joachim Kettner · From: Germany

Off topic, I know, but I also have to give a compliment to your great band!

Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

Stuart, That is great work. I can only echo all that Bent said and more. Excellent!

Ummmmm, Dave is right too!!!

However, I am pretty well becoming cured of my insanity to a degree. As I said before, If anyone knows of a publication detailing building a changer I will buy it. I have built one working finger set so that part of me is satisfied. I now want to build one to a proven, predictable performance plan. I am so scared of putting in all this time only to find that what I build doesn't quite make it to a full tone. I mean, how many degrees of rotation are required for 50/100/150 cents and for various string thickness/tension? Is there such a book with this type of information? (a harmonica is looking more and more attractive about now)

Regards, Allan.....
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Only nuts eat squirrels.

Television is the REAL opiate of the masses!

Bobby Burns · From: Tennessee, USA

There is a guy who sells a book on cd on ebay. It is fairly mediocre. It is not a real good build a guitar plan. I'm not sure all the measurements are real accurate, but it will give you some good pictures of all the parts of three or for different types of all pull changers, and leave you with a good idea of how they work. I think you could build one of his changers, and it would work as is, but I would get some ideas from it, think through any potential flaws, and use the knowledge gained to design something better. I can't remember the guys name, but search ebay for steel guitar consruction and you'll find it.

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

..."mediocre" is a very generous assessment of that book/cd. I could tell you the name, but knowledge of these plans shouldn't be spread any further, IMHO. Useless waste of money Mad

Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

Thanks Bobby, but I am with Per on this one - I have seen that CD and it is a indeed very poor value for money in my opinion. Like Per, I will not name names, and for the same reason.

Regards, Allan.....
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Only nuts eat squirrels.

Television is the REAL opiate of the masses!

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

One word of caution to y'all who are using the side of a surface grinder wheel to generate the radii on your changer fingers.
1) Use a minimum 1/2" thick wheel dressing the "face" of the wheel with your diamond until the wheel "cleans up" completely.
2) Aluminum AND most stainless steels tend to gum and load up the wheel when you least expect it. Spray the face of the wheel with WD-40 while the spindle is running and DON'T shut the spindle off until you're done using it. If you do have to turn it off for any reason, re-dress the face of the wheel and re-spray with WD-40.
3) Don't use a new wheel...most of them are either 7" or 8" diameter. The side pressure on a wheel can be tremendous that far out from the spindle centerline...the wheel can reach a cracking point especially if it loads up on you. Using a 4"-4-1/2" diameter wheel is much safer and more rigid.
4) Keep the finger flooded with a shot of WD-40 as you're cutting. It'll throw a bit of a spray, but the wheel will cut freely using this method. If your grinder is equipped with a coolant setup, you can either flood the work, or add air for a spray mist...either works fine.
5) Use a 46- or 60-grit wheel for this application. An 80-grit or finer will just tend to load sooner and start "hammering" on you. If the wheel starts to "hammer", back off, re-dress the face, and start over. If you don't, it could be hair, eyes, and teeth all over the place!!!
Most of these small toolroom-type surface grinders turn at 3450 RPM. That's 57.5 revs per second. It will take flesh and bone off very neatly and very rapidly. NEVER get a finger underneath a wheel...it may disappear on you!!!
These words may sound sophomoric to a seasoned machinist. But I have seen even seasoned veterans get injured unnecessarily by taking chances.
I have been told over the years that I couldn't successfully grind soft metals on a surface grinder without the wheel gumming up. By using the WD-40, I have for decades ground copper, beryllium/bronze, brass, aluminum in several grades, and even Zamac die castings, without any wheel hammering. The WD-40 helps prevent the aluminum oxide crystals from which most wheels are made, from "friction-welding" themselves to the metal which results in "hammering" and can lead to a wheel explosion in a split second.
PRR

Allan Munro · From: Pennsylvania, USA and Scotland

I have to reinforce what Paul said above. I too have seen the result of accidents using grinding and cutting machines without due care.
One of my college instructors used to use his own hand as a graphic example while talking about safety. He had no middle finger and no ring finger on the right due to rushing a job and ignoring safety. It was a dramatic example that worked for me. I was working my way through college playing bass guitar in a country band at the time - sure made me think.

If you are not CERTAIN how to use the tools - ASK!

Thanks Paul - that post was well stated and hopefully well on time too.

Musicians with ripped out fingers - not good!

Regards, Allan.....
_________________
Only nuts eat squirrels.

Television is the REAL opiate of the masses!

richard burton · From: Britain

Wise words from Paul.

I made my changer fingers from steel (I didn't realise at the time that they were made out of aluminium) so grinding the radius was not an issue.

Pat Comeau · From: New Brunswick, Canada

You can make many different changer that are easy to make and works just as good has any other changers with just a few home tools, not everyone needs a 3 raise and 3 lowers... a 2 raise and 1 lower changer will do almost everything you need and keep you busy for a long time, there is a few mesurements that are crucial for a changer to work properly and to be able to lower or raise a full note or a note and a half or even 2 notes. Smile

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Bobby Burns · From: Tennessee, USA

I have made fingers, using this same type of jig, on a large disc sander. I never use a grinder on aluminum, and it sands pretty easy. I think Bent also used a disc sander. I know in some places, some types of sanders are called grinders (belt grinder?). It is a good idea to give some thought to this before you start grinding, and have a wheel blow up in your face, as Paul stated. A grinding disc, using some sort of adhesive mounted sandpaper, is a lot different than a grinding wheel, which is more like a rock.

Bobby Burns · From: Tennessee, USA

I agree about the comments on the steel building book on CD. As I said, I would not want to use it as a pattern to build one, only as an idea of how the changer works, and then design something better. I honestly think that if you have a good enough idea of how a changer works, that you are capable of building a good one, you will be able to design one from your own head and thoughts without someone elses measured drawing anyway. I am not sure that reading any book would make you competent, untill you actually work on a few. Take your steel apart and put it back together a few times. When you are sure that you can put it back together at least playing as good as it did before, maybe better, then move on. Look at other steels and see what makes them different that yours. Then pick and choose all the different features that you like best, and draw out your own pattern. If you stick with this long enough, you will come up with a guitar you like better than what you have now. If you just make a copy of someone else's drawing without really understanding how it works, you will be lucky to get a guitar that you really like to play, especially the first time.

Bobby Burns · From: Tennessee, USA

One more thing. I don't mean to assume that you have no understanding of how your changer works, and after all your original question was about buying one. It could be that you realize all of this already, and just don't want to have the time and trouble invested in making one, and I respect that.
Yes we instrument builder are an irrational bunch. We invest way more time money and effort in these things than it would take to just buy one that already works. There is a tremendous feeling of accomplishment that comes from thinking about a design and working out in your head and on paper, and then seeing it come to life as a truly functional instrument. This is much greater in instruments of your own design than just a copy of something else, or assembling a collection of someone else's parts.
When I was a kid, I saw a Foxfire book with a chapter on fiddle makers, so I started carving a fiddle, without any kind of pattern whatsoever other than pictures in that book. I wore out that book. My mom said,"any little boy that wants a fiddle that bad needs a fiddle". So she bought me one. I did want a fiddle, bust mostly I wanted to make something that made that sound. I think it is a much stronger desire than just wanting to own an instrument.
Build something, have fun, and be safe doing it.

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