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Topic: Right Or Wrong - E9/C6 Fender Blues Junior NOS Tweed |
Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2009 8:11 pm |
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Right Or Wrong with all guitar and steel parts played through a Fender Blues Junior NOS tweed. This is a continuation of steel recordings using tube amps with the blackface Vibro Champ and Super Champ XD already posted and the Princeton and Deluxe Reverb RI's to follow. For more details and pics, see my web site link below. The first verse is on C6th and the last verse is E9th.
I have a rhythm track in the works as well as tab for the E9th and C6th parts.
More Detail on my web site!
Right Or Wrong in wma format
Right Or Wrong in mp3 streaming format
Greg
Last edited by Greg Cutshaw on 20 Sep 2009 6:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 2:39 am
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| Just one comment: you're running out of headroom (bits) somewhere in the recording chain. Makes it a bit difficult for me to appreciate the sound of the gear. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 6:29 am
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Georg,
I've got lot's of headroom! I just did a quick mix on this song on my Yamaha AW-2400 workstation instead of porting it to the PC for the final mix in Reaper like I normally do. Each individual channel is well within it's headroom (no analog input or dogital track overload) but I did let the overall mix creep over the high threshhold in some places. If I get time next week, I'll remaster it on the PC and smooth it out a bit. It's a pretty raw sound as is, but it's close to what I hear sitting in front of the amp!
Greg |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 6:38 am
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
| ... but I did let the overall mix creep over the high threshhold in some places. |
That's what I hear, and find disturbing (I'm over-sensitive for that clip-sound  ). Everything below clipping sounds as expected/described for your gear. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 9:54 am
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Having played through tube amps almost exclusively for decades and recorded with them, I have to say I hear NO recording headroom/clipping at all. I hear the rig being played right where I normally play when I play "clean" - the amp is cranked just to the point of natural distortion (and it's a different point with every amp depending on construction, transformers, tubes, bias and a hundred other variables), and the clipping is where the signal gets pushed just over the edge of the cliff...and then pulled back. It's a warm sound many tube amp players strive to hit, but often can't (especially in multiple locations if they only own one amp).
I think it's a tremendous example of the "warm clean" tone many 6-stringers describe that confuses many steel-only players, who use the term "clean" in a different way - as in "absolutely no distortion".
It's also a great example (and I think Greg and I have discussed this in the past) of why I have a dozen or so tube amps of varying power, speaker configurations and other variables - IMO you have to have not just the right settings but the right amp for particular venues, and when playing live I choose an amp very carefully so I can hit "my" sound at the right volume level.
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 10:19 am
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I hear digital clipping on the loud attacks on the MP3 file. I didn't listen to the WMA. If the files are different, maybe that's why I Georg and I hear them and Jim doesn't. Tube amps do not make that cellophane-like noise. Besides, it shows up in the acoustic guitar solo, too (at 2:30). It's not the amp.
Greg, should this be moved to the Electronics section? It seems to be about amp.
Very nice job, by the way. It shows that you don't need a high-powered solid state amp to get a great steel guitar tone.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 10:45 am
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| The clipping is present in the same places in the WMA file. Overshots just sound different - slightly softer/rounder - because of differences in the WMA codec compared to the MP3 codec. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2009 8:54 pm
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Thanks for all the comments. I love the tube sound for guitars and guess I prefer the clean sound of a Webb, Steel King or Nashville 400 for steel. There's no replacing the cool glow of tubes though especially late at night in a dark room!
I create the drum patterns from EzDrummer (as a Reaper plug in) using my Excel template as a guide, in this case,using a straight rock beat, with manual edits, deleting the too busy parts and adding some accents, then I download them to the Yamaha AW24 as 3 mono and one stereo tracks. Next I add a real accoustic rhythm guitar part and a real bass part, direct to console (in this case a Fender Squier Classic Vibe Jazz bass). Then I add all the lead parts, punching in and out to get all the bits and pieces I like. For this song I did a quick mixdown of the 16 bit tracks to a 16 bit wav stereo track on the Yamaha, then USB'd it to the PC where I converted the 16 bit source file to a 192kbps wma file and a 320 kbps mp3 file. Both of these converted files sound almost identical to the original wav file. The Yamaha has excellent compressors and EQ on every input and track channel if needed.
When I am not so lazy, I'll USB ALL the source tracks to Reaper and carefully compress each drum and the bass parts. I'll also carefully adjust the lead parts by drawing gain windows around high and low points to keep them equal enough that not a lot of compression is needed to keep the final mix even.
The point of this whole diatribe is that, sometimes, at the end of all this work for one song, I get tired of messing with it and decide that hours of mastering just isn't any fun, and I'll do a quick mix on the AW-2400 instead.
This whole series I am recording is not meant to make any big statement and of course is not overly scientific as I could change EQ, mics, placements, etc to achieve lots of different tones. But still the tube character shines through and it does show that tubes can be used to good effect in recording and lower volume apps for steel.
I'll try to find a nice slow steel song for the Princeton amp and add in some nice fat echo and lots of slides to mix it up a bit.
With this song, you are getting a very uncompressed, unEQ'd, raw sound. This amp, the Princeton, the Deluxe and the Vibro Champ really cook for guitar if you match the amp to the volume level. I'll bet that with a mid shift circuit mod, these would be real cool for low level steel playing.
Now if someone would just build me a volume pedal with built-in delay and reverb and a remote bluetooth controller, I could add an electronic pedal that requires a power plug but actually eliminates external effects boxes and cords actually REDUCING the total setup time and connecting cables. (soap box turned off).
Greg |
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Drew Howard
From:
48854
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Posted 20 Sep 2009 5:30 am
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Excellent, Greg. Thanks for taking the time to AB gear.
I use a Blues Jr. almost exclusively for steel guitar, both pedal and non. My only gripe with the amp are the cheesy plastic posts that the knobs are mounted on. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 20 Sep 2009 5:58 pm
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Drew, the Fender amp construction is pretty poor for sure and I looked at building my own or getting clone with non-PCB mounted pots and better tube sockets etc. I am a BIG sucker for the Fender logo though.
Do you have the Fender Blues Junior NOS (Tweed) or the Fender Blues Junior in the black tolex. Mine is tweed and I think I said tolex above. The two amps have different circuits.
Greg |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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