Right hand question for playing scales

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Beginner question here. To help improve my single-note playing, I've started working on scales a little bit. (I know some of you don't favor that approach, but it has worked well for me in the past on piano and six-string guitar.) I'd like your opinion on whether the picking pattern I'm using is reasonable, or if there's a different way I should be picking it. Let's take a 1-octave ascending A major scale at the 5th fret:

I wrote in the fingers I'm using (Thumb, Index, Middle) at the bottom. Coming back down the scale I use the same pattern in reverse. Am I on the right track?

John

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

If that is comfortable for you, you can accurately pluck the strings, and that picking sequence comes naturally to you, I would say you are on the right track.

I would suggest that you also learn to play that scale by picking each note and not relying on the pedals to slur into the following note.

Lee, from South Texas

Roger Francis · From: kokomo,Indiana, USA

The T I T, i think it's called a crossover and is used by quite a few pickers and if i'm not mistaken Mickey Adams is one of those guys that uses it, and he's a very good steel player, so your in good company.

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Thanks, guys, I appreciate the advice. Lee, thanks for the tip about picking each note vs. slurring them. I had been wondering about that.

Roger, Micky Adams does use that crossover as does Cindy Cashdollar. The only other way that works at all for me involves picking all of the lower notes with my thumb. But I think that would limit me in the future, so I'm trying to get the crossover move down.

John

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

Actually, John, I think the most limiting thing would be to practice scales or any patterns in just one way. Many of the heavy hitters actually do play several notes of this kind of run in order with the thumb.
I would try every conceivable fingering, as there WILL be a time when you're playing along, and the next note you hear or want to play won't lie comfortably in the one pattern you've ingrained, (if you've just learned the one pattern!)
Variables within a scale pattern snclude moving to other frets, reversing direction, skipping notes, etc. Aiming for finger independence is your best tool.

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Thanks, Mark. That's a good point. I thought I had pretty reasonable finger independence until I recently started working on the exercises in Joe Wright's "Wright Hand" video. Man, I never realized my index and middle fingers were so coupled to each other. The exercises are helping, though.

Once I get this right hand thing down, I only have 6 more obstacles: left hand, both feet, both knees, and brain. Smile

Well, 7 obstacles if you count soul.

John

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

John - Don't leave out your ears!

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Many pickers do the crossover picking with T and M, rather than T and I.

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Brint, another forum member told me the same thing in private mail, so I'm trying it both ways. So far, the index finger seems to work better for me. Hard to say for sure until I've practiced it some more, though.

John

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

I am in agreement with all of you...I tabbed within my
book several exercises that address this, includung this scale pattern. I also included much simpler exercises that include alternating the fingerings. Is it possible for you to execute this scale, Beginning with your Index, and you middle finger, executing the crossover earier?...each time you accomplish the crossover, or cross under you reset the base position of your right hand...In time these simple moves inprove your fluidity...All things considered...Dont ever leave your ear!!>..The objectives are to improve dexterity, articulation, and more importantly...Your ear..
Mark has hit the nail right on the head too...thats Very good advice!!
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David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

As a matter of course, I would probably play that last note with my index finger, to leave my thumb open to (potentially) play the next note. I also use my ring finger, and I work towards being able to start any next lick with any finger (or thumb) - easier said than done, of course. But once you commit your thumb, it's kinda... there for a bit. I like to "save" it for openings.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

John, are you blocking or letting them ring on? Smile

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

James, I'm blocking after each note except the slurred notes. Mainly I'm using palm blocking. I work on pick blocking a little bit each day, but I don't have it mastered enough yet to use it when I'm playing "real" music.

I'm starting to "get it" about not settling into any single picking pattern for this stuff. I'd been thinking in terms of piano, where there is a standard fingering that you use for each scale. On piano, the fingering strategy (oversimplified I admit) boils down to avoiding having to use your thumb on a black key. On pedal steel all the strings are the same shape, so that doesn't really apply.

Micky, I've just ordered your book and I'm looking forward to working on it.

As David said, I'll work toward being able to start a lick with any finger. But right now I still can't play even a one-octave scale reliably, so I'm focusing on a particular picking pattern to try and get that far before I mix things up too much.

John

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

John, I'd dig in real hard on the Joe Wright material. He will have you pick-blocking just fine i no time. Master those finger excersises, and you will be inclined to stay out of "ruts". You will become very versatile of what finger goes to the "need" at the moment. When you get those finger excersises nailed down, then go back and PALM BLOCK them. You will be very pleased with the results.

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Never mind, it was my eyes. Embarassed

John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Thanks, James. I'm working pretty hard on the Joe Wright material. I'm glad to hear it's going to pay off.

John

Gary Newcomb · From: AustinTexas, USA

Wow you guys, I've been experimenting with this alot lately. ( the crossover) I just didn't Know that it was a technique with an actual name.
Curious about one thing - I'm a pick blocker who wears a pick on my ring finger also. Do any of you do this AND use the crossover?
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John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Gary, I'm just a beginner, but how else could you play a long run that covered more than 4 strings? You'd pretty much have to pick up your hand and move it to a new position, which is what the crossover does.

John

Gary Newcomb · From: AustinTexas, USA

hey John, i don't see anyother way. I was curious because it seems that most steel players that I've seen play with 2picks and a thumb and palm block.
I've been trying (@ home) to start moving my thumb to the next position as my ring finger is about to pluck the note. I don't know of this is the same as Crossover. It's real easy for the picks to click together and get caught. I should get this Joe wright video as I've heard that he wears three picks and a thumb too and pick blocks. G
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John Polstra · From: Lopez Island, WA, USA

Gary, I believe the crossing over is pretty much the same whether you pick block or palm block.

The Joe Wright video that I have ("Secrets of the Wright Hand") doesn't really address that directly. But it does have a bunch of exercises that involve picking up your hand and moving it to a different set of strings. He does in fact wear a thumb pick and three finger picks, though that's not required by the exercises.

I also have a Cindy Cashdollar video "Learn to Play Western Swing -- Learning the Basics" where she has an exercise to practice that move. She plays her runs using mainly her thumb and index finger, changing between the two each time she picks a new string. She reserves her middle finger (as far as I can tell) for the odd high note here and there. She has an exercise covering 8 adjacent strings T-I-T-I-T-I-T-I ascending and then back down again. It's good practice. She uses only palm blocking on the video. (Note: it is for C6 non-pedal steel, but of course you can practice the picking on anything.)

Several of Micky Adams's videos on YouTube demonstrate the move with pick blocking. Here is one of them.

I always wear three finger picks when I play 6-string guitar. But I only wear two when I play pedal steel. On 6-string I pretty much dedicate one finger to each of strings 1, 2, and 3, and then cover 4-5-6 with the thumb. On pedal steel there are too many strings for that, so I have to move my hand around.

Again, I am the opposite of an expert on this stuff!

John

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