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Topic: Suggest a Replacement Pickup for a..... |
Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2009 9:33 am |
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(ducking).........Carter Starter.
Ok, I know many of you will probably file this under "polishing a turd" but I'm a guitar player in a couple of tribute bands that do Eagles and CSNY so I only use the steel on a handfull of songs. I like the ease of portability of the light Starter. I even packed it in an old suitcase and checked it for a flight to a gig in Canada and it survived w/o problems. Besides, like so many others I'm currently unemployed (after 24 years and change with IBM) so a new steel is so far down on the "list" it's over way the horizon.
Anyway, when I have played better steels I've liked the warmer tone they had compared to mine. I've been able to emulate that with some success with EQ but I think a pup change might work well (and it's something I could probably afford right now). My Starter is an older model with the encased (Lawerence?) pup as opposed to the exposed coil on the newer models. I'm guessing it's still a single coil and I want to replace it with a humbucker. Obviously, cost is an issue along side tone. Unlike guitar pickups I know very little about what is available for pedal steel. Suggestions? |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 10 Aug 2009 9:41 am
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Gary haven't you heard? It's all in the hands! Player X can make that Starter sound like the heavens! Forget the pickup change. You just need to practice.
Seriously though, if you are happy with the sustain and mechanics, I would expect a pickup change could/would make you happy(er). |
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2009 9:53 am
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But what if I practice AND change the pickup...?  |
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Peter Nylund
From:
Finland
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2009 11:12 am
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That's the newer Starter model with the exposed coil pickup.
Doesn't anyone want to talk about pickups? It's not like I can walk into a GC and see (and *maybe* hear) a bunch of replacement pickups for steel.
I know all about "tone is mostly in the fingers" and I'm not arguing that. I also know I've liked what I've heard when I've played other steels with warmer sounding pickups. I've got 30 years of pickup-changing experience on guitar and a steel generates a signal in the same way so at least some of what I've learned about guitar pickups must be transferrable.
What I need is some links/references to where I can buy replacement pickups and some comments on what others have used and liked. |
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Nic du Toit
From:
Milnerton, Cape, South Africa
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Posted 10 Aug 2009 1:10 pm
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Gary,
If you're into the 'Humbucker' kind of sound, talk to Jeff Fabian at Carter ..... You may want to look at the George L E66 pickup. He sells all of those, and more, and could perhaps give some advice.
_________________
1970 P/P Emmons D10 flatback 8x5, BJS Bar, J F picks, Peavey Session 500, Telonics pedal. Boss GX700 effects.
Skype : nidutoit |
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2009 3:29 pm
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Thanks, Nic. I listened to a youtube video of a guy playing through a George L E66 and his sound was just what I'm looking for.
There looks to be a few others, slightly hotter George L humbucker models available. Anybody here use GL HB's? Like em? Pros/Cons?
BTW, here's a vid of my band (we're in there somewhere) playing in front of an estimated 6000 people a couple of weeks ago at Polliwog Park, Manhattan Beach, CA.
We'd just gotten home from a quick mid-west tour that morning. I was expecting to play to a only few people in a Manhattan Beach, CA park for our last gig of a busy week. We'd only gotten 2hr sleep that night after playing the Vernon Hills festival in surburban Chicago and were pretty much running on empty and the energy of the crowd. Too bad we're not always that busy or I could give up looking for another "real" job.
And yeah, I know a B-bender Tele not a steel was used on the original recording. |
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Nic du Toit
From:
Milnerton, Cape, South Africa
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 1:14 am
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Hi Gary,
Listening to the clip you posted, I would hazard a guess that your 'sound' problem is mostly Amp/PA related. I reckon a good steel amp, and a sympathetic sound engineer will provide a better solution than perhaps a different pickup. At the end of the a day pickup is a pickup, is a pickup, and will not provide such a drastic change in sound as what you would hope for. Rather invest your money in a high end rackmount EQ/Pre-amp.
Regards,
Nic
_________________
1970 P/P Emmons D10 flatback 8x5, BJS Bar, J F picks, Peavey Session 500, Telonics pedal. Boss GX700 effects.
Skype : nidutoit |
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Jonathan Shacklock
From:
London, UK
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 8:39 am
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No I hadn't, thanks - excellent resource!
Nic, you can't really judge my tone by that bad recording. I only included it as an aside, not an example. Also, I don't have the luxury (or the back) to carry multiple amp systems so whatever steel I use needs to sound good through a clean guitar amp. If I played steel for more songs I might consider carrying a separate steel amp but with only a handful of songs on the steel per gig, I want to make a single amp work for guitar and steel. I've liked what I've heard previously with humbuckers and it's a relatively inexpensive experiment. Ultimately, if I don't like a new pickup I'll put it up for sale.
Last edited by Gary Richardi on 11 Aug 2009 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 8:49 am
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This may seem like an oddball recommendation, but if you're primarily a guitar player and looking for a warmer sound you might be hearing 6-string sounds in your head as well.
Although it might look odd since it's a little smaller than a steel pickup, the Lace Alumitone P-90 sounds extremely warm and full, with plenty of treble. It's also a zero-noise pickup. It's wide enough to handle a 10-string; I tried mine on one of the necks of a ZB I'm in the process of repairing and was really pleased (It's on my Fender 400 now).
At the L.A. steel jam Dean Parks had a P-90 he let me hear on his steel, which has a sliding pickup-change system (I forget the brand...maybe a Rittenberry?) and while it sounded "pedal steely" enough it had a bigger, more "round" tone with incredible bite when he'd bear down.
That's when I firmed-up the P-90 idea based on hearing the Alumitones at NAMM - the advantages with the Alumitone being you need no impedance matching and you have no single-coil noise.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 10:26 am
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I've become a P90 fan for pups on my 6-strings over the last few years so your suggestion sounds interesting.
Please enlighten me on impedence matching issues/solutions for steel pickups. This is something I know very little about. |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 11:11 am psg
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| I put a XR-16 p/u in a CS a few years ago and it turned into a little tone monster. Folks couldn't believe it. Had to do a little modifying but it worked. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 12:12 pm
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
At the L.A. steel jam Dean Parks had a P-90 he let me hear on his steel, which has a sliding pickup-change system (I forget the brand...maybe a Rittenberry?) ......
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Does anyone have photos or a more elaborate description of this pickup-change system? Maybe a confirmation of the brand? |
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 4:05 pm
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Jim, that was MSA Studio Pro guitar.
THe pickup was a Jason Lollar. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2009 8:49 pm
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Thanks Dean...I drew a blank and threw a dart!
The Lollar P-90 really convinced me of the idea I had floating in my head after screwing around with the Gibson EH620 I had. The thing had incredible tone, but was, of course, not mechanically designed to play changes as well as modern steels, or even my cable-pull Fenders (which seem like they were way ahead of their time when first released).
The pickup switch made a (IMO) solidly recognizable difference, and hit a sound I wanted to be able to get. Seymour Duncan and I had been talking about some unrelated 6-string pickups and some steel pickup "reissues" - I was going to hit him with an 8-string P-90 type at NAMM; he was busy when I went by his "booth" and not 5 minutes later I chanced into the Alumitones. Then hearing Dean's Lollar I decided to try the Alumitone since it's a zero-noise design -plus a stock one would fit 8 or 10 string spacing.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Aug 2009 8:00 am
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| My feelings are along the same lines as Nic's. A pickup swap isn't going to give you a big change unless your amp is anemic (it sounds like your pushing too many highs and mids). What kind of amp are you using? I'd back off the mids substantially (or even altogether), and then use your treble as a "contour" control. Of course, if you're using a lower wattage (lead guitar) amp, getting "fat" sounds with just the bridge pickup we have in a pedal steel is impossible. |
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Gary Richardi
From:
SoCal, USA
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Posted 12 Aug 2009 9:31 am
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Well, I'm going to find out for myself as I made a deal to buy a used GL 10-1. I'll have to get creative mounting it but I think it should work.
I'm mostly using a 75W Johnson (Digitech) Milennium 2x12 combo. I understand that I don't have an ideal steel amp setup but I have to make it work as I'm not going to carry two amps. I've added an EQ to roll off the highs and boost the lower mids and that has helped a bit but it has only addressed part of the issue. I don't like the character of the single coil on the CS. As you'd expect from a single coil, it has a sharp attack and a quick decay. I'm not good enough with the vol pedal to compensate. I feel a humbucker's response, even in the bridge position, will be easier for me to deal with.
And, of course, I like tinkering with pickups... |
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