Learning on a 10 string or 12 string - any thoughts

Gary Cole · From: Virginia, USA

Newbie lurking about trying to soak up enough to decide whether to learn on a 10 or a 12 string. Any thoughts? Is there a thread here that would help? Thanks

Mickey Adams · From: Bandera Texas

Gary, I have input...12 string EX E9, or Universal? Please email me, Id be happy to share my experiences with the 12 string with you!!!..Mickey
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Gary, I like the 12 too, but for a newb just starting out, if you could find a good modern single 10 with 3 pedals and 3 or 4 knees, you could really learn everything you need to know about the pedal steel.

After some time learning and gaining more general information about the instrument, tunings etc., you may decide you want additional tunings like the Universal 12 or Double 10 with a C6 tuning. Perhaps something else altogether depending on your own personal music bent.

When you first start out, you're so busy just trying to figure out the beast, I don't think this is something you can really know until you get further along in your training.

Not to discount Mickey's suggestion. You certaintly couldn't go wrong there either.

Delvin Morgan · From: Lindstrom, Minnesota, USA

I started on a 12 string exE9 and am loving it. The first 10 strings are just the same as any E9, then add the other grips as you get better. Those low strings are great, and the 12th E string is the same note as open E on a guitar.

Gary Cole · From: Virginia, USA

Mickey - email sent -
Jerry & Delvin - Thanks for sharing
I'm still listening...

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

WHY not learn the six basic strings first? and how you should go about playing them properly?

Once you've mastered that, and have learned how to properly pick, hold and slant the bar, etc., perhaps you'd be in a better position to determine whether you actually needed/wanted 8, 10, 12 or 14 strings; whether you wanted a couple extra on top or a couple extra on the bottom or, perhaps in the middle, or even an extra neck with foot pedals and/or perhaps some knee levers too!

The number of strings you should ultimately want on YOUR GUITAR should be what YOU found you needed to properly express yourself and not what 8,000 well-meaing great and wonderful steel players from around the world actually want on THEIR GUITAR.

David Doggett · Posted 5 Aug 2009 9:00 pm

I play a 12-string E9/B6 Universal. If you are teaching yourself and working through instructional materials, I think you are better off starting on 10-string pedal steel, or maybe even a 6- or 8-string lap steel. That will keep things simple while you are learning with the bar and picks, and learning how to navigate an open chord tuning. You can always move up to extra strings later, if you feel the need.

However, if you have a hands-on teacher, I have no doubt that I could teach a novice to play a 12-string from scratch. But 12-string instructional materials are meager and complicated. The 10-string tuning is embedded in the 12-string tuning. So you can use 10-string instructional material to learn on a 12-string, but that adds a layer of complication on the process.

Also, you should be aware that 6-string lap, 8-string lap, 10-string E9 pedal, 10-string C6 pedal, 12-string Extended E9 pedal, 12-string E9/B6 Universal, and 12-string E7 Sacred Steel are each complete universes in their own right, suited for certain types of music. The tunings with fewer strings are not less complicated and are not necessarily easier to learn and play, because, to play them well in some genres requires all sorts of slants and complicated grips. The pedals and levers of pedal steel actually make them easier to play, by eliminating many slants.

Also, the extra strings on 12-strings are not needed for some things. When I play traditional country on my 12-string uni, I almost never use the extra strings - they are too low and just don't sound right for that genre. But when I play rock, blues, jazz or classical, I make extensive use of the low strings - couldn't live without them. So to a great extent, it depends on what type of music you want to learn to play. You simply don't need 12-strings for classic country pedal steel. And you don't need anything more than 6 or 8 strings on a lap steel to play Hawaiian. So consider the type of music you want to play. Then look at the instrument used by the top players in that genre that you want to emulate. That's the instrument you want to learn on (and I think that's the same thing Ray is saying).

Larry Lorows · From: Zephyrhills,Florida, USA

For me, the U12 is the way to go. If you have a chance to purchase one don't be afraid of it. It will last you for years. My first steel was a 14 stringer, but I've settled on a U12. Any E9 or C6 course you get will apply to your steel tuning. Larry
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Darren James · From: Alabama, USA

My first steel was a 12 string because I found a used 12 string pro-model cheaper than I could get a 10 string student model. I had already been playing on a borrowed 10 string for a few months, so I just adjusted for the extra 2 strings and moved along.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I honestly don't think it matters much at the beginner/starter level. I think it's much more critical to simply have a good, solid, playable instrument. I'd infinitely rather have a good, professional 12-string - either Extended E9 or E9/B6 Universal - than a beginner guitar of any description.

It strikes me that most beginning players are focused on bar control and picking/blocking on strings 3-8 and the A+B pedals at first, and then work in the C pedal and D, E, and F levers. For this, either Standard or Extended E9, or Universal E9/B6 are exactly the same - in fact, strings 1-8 are identical on each. The only distinction is the lack of the normal string 9 D on E9/B6 Universal. I see absolutely no reason why you couldn't use most any of the beginner instructional stuff that I've seen.

In no way do I mean that it doesn't matter in the long haul. They're all reasonable tunings, and probably each have advantages and disadvantages, depending on what you ultimately want to do on the instrument. But for a beginner, I don't think either of the "standard" 12-string tunings should inhibit anybody from learning in the usual way.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Depends on the music

Country (old or new), rockabilly, or blues.......a 10 stringer

Jazz or pop........(maybe) a 12 stringer.

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

I started on a "10 stringer" and graduated to a 12 string universal and have never looked back. All of the "country" tunes can be played on a 10, and as, Lloyd Green and Randy Beavers have shown us, so can "western swing and "jazz'. But, if you really want the best of both worlds, the 12 string uni is the way to go. It has all the strings and changes you need to play country, plus, the lower strings to play jazz or western swing. You can also copy the lower end 6 string guitar riffs with the lower strings on a uni. If you have a chance to get an S12 UNI, get it. You won't be sorry. You can always play it like a 10 string E-9th and dabble with the 6th side, when , you become more comfortable with your steel. It'll be like an added option, that, you can use or not use. I wish I had started on an S12 Uni when I started, but, they weren't that popular back then and the copedants weren't so universal either.

Roual Ranes · From: Atlanta, Texas, USA

Go with the 12. It is there when you need it and you will not have to trade.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I agree with John D. on copying the lower end six string guitar riffs. I play several instrumentals using those strings such as the old blues shuffle "Honky Tonk" which you can't do on a ten stringer. Also in our country band my wife sings Highway l0l's "Somewhere Tonight" which has a steel and guitar intro and turn around. I can do both parts on my 12 stringer on that one as well as a bunch of others..........JH in Va.
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