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Topic: Be afraid...be very, very afraid...Fender 1200 |
Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2009 9:06 pm |
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If a 400 has one pickup...well, it's still the Sneakycaster II, but I guess I'll also call it the 1200 - because I feel like it!
Who says you *need* 3 pickups, 5-way switch and volume and tone controls on a steel?
Me.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Bob Adams
From:
Scotland, UK
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Posted 10 Jul 2009 9:31 pm
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| You still on cables underneath? |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2009 5:57 am
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When you can play it with your teeth you win "The Crossover of the Year" award.
(please don't set it on fire tho)  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2009 6:50 am
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Bob - yes, I'm still using stock cables, but with Shobud barrel tuners and simple steel "L" bracket stops for a double raise on my 4th string (a full step and a step and a half) and 1st string (lowering a half and full step) - both use knee levers for the longer pulls.
I've started setting some Delrin rods between cables as well - they're used as "guides" to straighten some pulls out where it's a bit crowded at the changer and I can lessen the pull loops yanking across each other. I'm also in the process of remaking a couple of cables - the 4th and 7th pedals are single pulls, so I'm removing the small pulleys (again, to lessen stuff rubbing against other...stuff) and just running a single loop to the changer instead of two loops to the same finger.
My engineer/mechanic/machinist at work (we have a full machine shop) is working on improving the cable mechanism - still using cables but working on a more secure connecting method than just solder.
Also...and I've been promising this for a long time...in about 1-2 months well be able to make full cable assemblies. He's working on cloning the small pulleys, I've ordered left hand tap/die sets in both 6-32 and 8-32 (Fender used both sizes and I want to be able to make parts for folks who have "orphans" - half a turnbuckle) and am already set up making changer loops - so we'll have the full turnbuckle/cable/pulley/loop system worked out and be able to make 'em to order (since length and small pulley positions vary each assembly has to be made specifically for one pedal on one guitar - I could make stock lengths but the pulleys might end up hitting each other, so I'll just make a few double-loop sizes and a bunch of turnbuckle/cable units that I can cut to size).
Most other parts...except pickups, another thing I'm working on with Seymour Duncan, who rewound Sneaky Pete's...are either plentiful enough or can be made.
I'm not ging to make a profit on parts - heck, I've given enough stuff away or sold things cheaply to prove I'm probably being really dumb about it as a business :whoa: but I just want to ensure the things are available - cable assemblies are the single most-requested part I get asked about, and even though my jerry-rigged ones have worked I'd rather make "improved stock" ones.
By the way - the pickups are a Stringmaster (the strongest output pickup I have...so far), a stock 6-string Alumitone P-90, which, because of it's design using the entire frame as a "pole" will work for 8-strings just fine, and a mystery 10-string that just fits the "swimming pool" routed for pickups. I think it's a Shobud Maverick - my source thought it came from one) - and it's much hotter than the stock pickup I have, which will be a much better match with the others (I still have a monstrous 30-pole, 1 1/2 inch deep pickup Dave Zirbel inflicted on me (grin) - it sounds great but I want to try this other 10-string; if I don't like it I'll reinstall the "monster". I'm using a 1000 top plate so I had room to rout the top for a Tele control plate with a 5-way Strat switch. I have a few other tricks I'll try - an inductor I'll try switching in and out (should work as a slight mid-boost)and I may do some series wiring tricks as well.
I'm not hacking up a nice vintage body - Gerald Pierce got me this one, and it had had all sorts of previous mods, including a rod system. If it was dead-mint I wouldn't do more than maybe add knee levers and double pulls as I did on my nice 1000 - those do not (for now) hurt the vintage value.
Oh - and the sticker is March Forth clothing - one of my daughter's sponsors. She ranked third in her rookie year surfing (at 18) in the WSA women's open Pro-Am series. For those of you who know what she's been through it's absolutely incredible -plus she's working 60 hours a week! Random video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXw2vo5uX70
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2009 7:04 am
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| way cool. since my 1000 is already been routed and refilled with what looks like wood putty...Im gonna carve it back out and add another pickup someday. i wannna do a knee lever soon too. |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 11 Jul 2009 8:36 am
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Careful you guys, you just might find out the old cable system might be one of the best out there. i still have a 400 changer, but I haven't decided what to do with it, YET.
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2009 12:29 pm
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I have THREE spares - two long scale and one short-scale. And I don't want to change from the cable system -I think it's tremendous. I just want to improve the reliability.
A buddy of mine and I are trying to figure out a clone of Clarence White's original B-bender with the short-scale one (similar to the one Clarence got from Sneaky - which is interesting, considering I never saw Sneaky with a short-scale guitar).
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Joel Meredith
From:
Portland,Oregon, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2009 11:44 am
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Jim, good luck with the pickup experiment, looks fun!
Great idea getting rid of the small pulleys for pedals 4 & 7, I should give that a try.
Hey, if you ever get a chance, I'd love to see photos of the underside of your Sneakycaster!
Take care,
Joel |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2009 12:30 pm
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Jim, have you ever had a George L blade-type PU in that guitar?
...cannot imagine what it would sound like. |
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John Poston
From:
Albuquerque, NM, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2009 5:08 pm
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| Jim, just wanted to mention the appreciation I have for all the great ideas and things you have done. |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 16 Jul 2009 6:28 pm
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Rick I used a similiar one in my 400 and the string separation suffered somewhat on the bass strings. Mids and highs were ok. Hope this helps. Yeh thanks to Sliff for all his experiments. Just takes guts right Jim??? 
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 16 Jul 2009 7:15 pm
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Fred, Remember this one? 
My Fender workbench is a bit low tech.
Jim, When you get it done post some sound samples!
Russ |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 2:13 am
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Yes Russ, that guitar had a good sound. Looks like something has been added. LOL
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Brian Herder
From:
Philadelphia, Pa. USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 5:02 am
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| I'm a big Sneaky Pete fan, but boy I hope that steel had already been butchered. |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 5:54 am
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I guess "butchered" is in the eyes and ears of the beholder. I've seen several and I mean quite a few guitars that have been "modified" in considerable depth that have improved tone and, in some cases, look much better than the original. One of the Harlins comes to mind. I have an old MSA Classic that has been "butchered" that is one of the family. Money can't buy it because of its sentimental value, it put all of my 3 kids through college, and it still looks pretty good. Lots of good things have come from individual modifications. Post is not to raise a fuss but just a thought.
phred
_________________
There are only two defining forces that have offered to die for you; Jesus Christ and the American GI!!
Think about it!! |
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Brian Herder
From:
Philadelphia, Pa. USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 6:26 am
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| Fred, I didn't mean to imply that Jim's modifications are butchering, I just hate to see a vintage Fender modified, unless it's already been "butchered", rendering it a "utility" item, rather than an example of Fender history.. and in my book, a Fender 400 is a vintage, collectable guitar as is. It's not a modern style guitar, but it's certainly a fully functional piece in it's original form. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 9:09 am
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I love to see guitar mods. In just about any and every thread about creativity and innovation, there is at least one poster that pops up and says "if it's good enough for (insert hero here), it's good enough for me" or "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". In 20 years, one of these discussed mods may be a standard and may be adopted by a hero to a new generation. That's how we ended up with this highly evolved pedal steel? It went from a six-string lap steel to a D10 with a spaghetti bomb of rods within a handful of decades.
By the way, Brian, I am not referring to your response. I too have trouble modding a classic. I tend to get modern instruments so I can butcher them without guilt. |
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Ben Jones
From:
Seattle, Washington, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 3:25 pm
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Jim already said:
"I'm not hacking up a nice vintage body - Gerald Pierce got me this one, and it had had all sorts of previous mods, including a rod system. If it was dead-mint I wouldn't do more than maybe add knee levers and double pulls as I did on my nice 1000 - those do not (for now) hurt the vintage value."
so no need to worry |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 4:08 pm
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Did I ever show you this one ? I covered it in black vinyl, the sort that they cover amps in. The pedals were red rusty, so I wire-brushed them and resprayed them black. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 9:30 pm
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russ' steel looks expanded and improved in fender factory fashion,,,certainly not 'butchered'!!
alan's looks like it's dressed up in leather for a ball in san francisco! he is in s.f. you know. |
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin
From:
Sweden
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Posted 17 Jul 2009 11:03 pm
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Jim,I spy w/ my li´l eye...an Alumitone,or so it
looks...if so,what type..?..I ask because I´m toying
with the idea of getting one of these for my old
Epi 8-string,I believe they have a rather broad
pick-up zone...McUtsi |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 18 Jul 2009 4:36 am
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Yes, I added 3 Fender pedals and the roller bridge and nut. 
Russ |
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Brian Herder
From:
Philadelphia, Pa. USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2009 8:20 am
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I really should start reading the posts before posting myself..  Alan, a nice companion for that Tolex guitar would be one of those limited edition sunburst Fender amps. |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 18 Jul 2009 9:29 am
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| chris ivey wrote: |
| ...Alan's looks like it's dressed up in leather for a ball in San Francisco... |
I never thought of that before. I have the leather jacket, so if I got a pair of leather trousers and a black shirt maybe I could make a hit at one of those gay parties on Polk St.
I don't think I could play all that disco music, though.  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2009 10:56 am
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| Quote: |
| I just hate to see a vintage Fender modified, |
And normally I would not hack one either - long before I was involved with pedal steel I had a small home-based tech business, and I absolutely refused to do hack mods for players at any price.
This one was a box of parts and had been played as a cable, then rodded, then cable guitar again by Gerald Pierce. ALL others I've modded have already had mystery screw holes or other odd things - none were "virgins" 
There's a mixed feeling about vintage Fender pedal steels. The vintage guitar collecting world is trying hard to classify (and price) them as collectables (with '58 Strats going for $50k the vintage dealers...who "build" the market and pricing....have an incentive.
But since literally HALF the ones you see...probably more like 75% - have ALREADY been modified in some way AND since pedal steel is still a small market they will not, IMO, ever become true "collectables" (maybe 100% original clean ones might to a point..) - part of the reason is that while a '58 Strat or Tele is a playable guitar in original condition, a 4-pedal 400 is somewhat limited - and that one fact keeps them buried in the back pages of collector books.
Gibson steels hold an even lower collectable status - you can sell an early 50's 6-string P90 pickup for FAR more than a Gibson 8-string steel...with a P90!
Other notes:
Yes, that IS an Alumitone P-90. I talked to Jeff Lace at NAMM and because the frame itself is essentially an active part of the assembly as long as the string is just inside the edge of the pickup it'll work fine (I'll be confirming that this afternoon, I hope!)
If so it will mean ANY of the 6-string Alumitones will work on a 400 or 1000, where the outside strings are well inside the pickup's edge. You could actually put a whole Strat set on! I thought the Alumitone P90 was an incredible sounding pickup, though, so decided to go that way first (I'm in process of building another B-bender guitar that will be loaded with 2 P-90's so I can always use it there later). The other reason for using it is output - the Stringmaster I use in the bridge position is REALLY hot, and I prefer good balance between pickups. The front one is the wild card - it looks to me like a Shobud Maverick or similar, and measures about 11k DC resistance. Having had a Maverick, I thought it might work in the "neck" position - they are normally good sounding pickups with an even frequency response (no top-end "push". If I don't like it I can reinstall my 30-pole monster (which works great), a stock Fender rectangular 8-string (which is a little low in output compared to the others) or have the Fender rewound by Seymour Duncan with an extra coil ala Red Rhodes' Velvet Hammer pickups, something we've discussed.
Later I'll be working on reinforced cable-pull systems (the cable system is actually quite stable and has a positive feel where the barrel stops are used, so my engineer/machinist and I are working on two projects (besides replacement parts like turnbuckles, pulleys, changer loops and whole cable harnesses):
1. A slight modification in the cable system to lighten the "action" and create more positive stops, and
2. A new drop-in changer for long-scale (and maybe even short-scale) 400's and 1000's with an integral roller bridge (with variable saddle intonation for those who want to try it) and at minimum double-raise/double-lower capability.
So while I wrestle with the ZB I ended up with through a bandleader I'll have all THIS going on!
EDITED TO ADD:
I just measured the string spacing on my ZB D10....and a stock Alumitone P90 6-string model not only would work (according to Lace) as far as width goes...if there was just a way to raise the string height about 1/8" at the changer one could actually slide right in ahead of the existing 3-coil pickup, mount it with double-stick tapeand run the wires through the existing pickups slot and to the (unused) center switch......
Hmmmmmmm...........
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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