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Topic: '51 Duo Professional Pickup is Buzzing |
Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 29 Jul 2009 1:26 pm |
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This is concerning the trapezoid pickup on the outside neck. When strummed or especially when sliding into a note or chord on the high strings the pickup "buzzes". Not on the bridge, but the pickup itself vibrates which causes an odd overtone at times.
When I press down on the pickup and give it a good strum the vibrating stops. So I think the covering itself is just loose enough to be chattering against the smaller magnet.
I know the coil itself is pretty, um... delicate. It was just recently rewound by Fender themselves and I don't want to damage it.
Any pointers? |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 29 Jul 2009 3:22 pm
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| Chris, I have a Fender Stringmaster T-8 which at times produced some weird overtones and when I pressed on different points on the guitar they would stop. I discovered that I needed to tighten up the long bolts that hold all the necks together by removing the little diamond shape cover on the front and using an allen wrentch. The vibration of the loose necks is what the problem was. Even though the necks didn't feel loose I was able to tighten them up enough to stop the vibration and overtones. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 29 Jul 2009 4:51 pm
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This is a very common problem with trapezoid pickups. It is due to the fact that the material used for the bobbin shrinks with time and rattles around inside the metal housing.
You have a few choices: Jason Lollar makes a bobbin that you can just drop right in and wire up to your switches. You can also carefully take the pickup apart and stick a piece of duct tape on the bottom and top pieces of the metal shell (not the bobbin) and sized to fit the shell as best you can. You must do this very carefully. It seemed to work for me on a guitar with the same problems, as it seems to stop the bobbin from moving around so much. When you tighten it all back up, you have to make certain not to over-tighten the bolts; if you do, you can kiss that pickup goodbye.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 30 Jul 2009 8:15 am
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Thanks for the input fellas.
I did notice vibrations stop when I squeezed the front and back of the body together after strumming either neck. I didn't realize there were compression rods (is that the right name?) behind those diamonds. Now to figure out how to detach those brad nails without hurting anything...
Next, I may try the duct tape trick. Whenever I get new strings perhaps. Am I correct in thinking the bobbin is essentially fiberboard dipped in resin?
I also notice that, now that I actually have two necks to play with, the two certainly have substancial difference in tone and volume...
With the switch in the middle (both necks on) the "new" pickup is nice and loud but more bassy. The original one sounds like it's coming through an old radio speaker, real thin and more quiet. But if you switch between necks, they match each other in volume - yet the "new" pickup still has more bass.
I figure the newly wound pickup has more copper than the original. Otherwise the effect sounds kinda cool actually. But that bassiness throws me off balance. Argh! |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 30 Jul 2009 5:16 pm
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| Chris, keep us posted. This kind of info is always helpful to others with the same issues. |
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Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 8:19 am
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| I'll work on it this weekend and take pictures. To be posted soon! |
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Matthew Dawson
From:
Portland Oregon, USA
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Posted 31 Jul 2009 8:43 am
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Sounds like you need to have the old pickup remagnitized. Apparently the way the magnets are yolked together on these pickups causes the magnets to lose their charge over the years. I think a remag would be included in a rewind of one of these.
A few months ago I got a '53 Fender Dual Pro. It sounded telephony, thin, and lacking in bass. I sent the pickups off to forum member Rick Aiello for a remag and the difference is like night and day. Try a forum search on this. I think Rick is still remaging.
-Matt |
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Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 27 May 2010 11:03 am
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BUZZ UPDATE
I fixed the buzz by cutting out a business card and placing that in the top pisckup shell. Same idea as the tape but I wanted to avoid the tape's sticky gunk in the future. Works like a champ.
TONE UPDATE
Received two new-born bobbins and a total remag from Lollar.
Installed the newly re-charged magnets to no avail. Outside neck sounds great, inside neck still sounds like it's inside a telephone.
FINALLY found where to get the vintage-type cloth wound wire, so once I get that I'm takin' baby to Colfax Guitar here in Denver to get the new Lollar bobbins installed, and a complete re-wire. Just to be safe. |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 28 May 2010 9:53 am
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| Pickups out of phase? That might explain the weezyl-sound with the switch in the "both" position, but not in the other positions. I put an "out-of-phase" switch in a Tele, way back when everyone thought that was a cool sound. Hated it! |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 28 May 2010 9:55 am
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I'll bet the house John's right about the pickups being out of phase. Simply reverse the wires of one of the pickups at the switch.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 28 May 2010 10:52 am
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| Phase never occured to me. I will bring it up to the man at the shop, since I shouldn't go anywhere near a soldering iron, haha. Thanks! |
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Dave Alfstad
From:
Indianola, IA USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2017 4:40 am
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| I know that I'm resurrecting an old post here, but this describes exactly the problem I'm having with the thin, telephone-sounding pickups on one neck of my T8. Coincidentally, it is also the neck closest to me as I play it. I have tried reversing the leads from one pickup as suggested here, but to no avail. The pickups appeared to be wired correctly to begin with. What did your issue turn out to be, Chris? |
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Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 27 Jul 2017 8:52 am
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It turned out to be the pickup bobbin itself. The originals were some kind of paper board and over the years of weather, heat from lights, etc. they just kind of collapse. Some more than others. Some just barely enough to not see. The coil wire can break here and there. So the signal gets thin.
OR could be the same issue of bobbin age, only that it has shrunk, thus vibrating in there. Either way, same issue. Time to get that bobbin replaced. Unless you're a pure collector and concerned with originality.
An alternative that I've learned just from noticing it in another one I got that use now is to insert a spacer kind of bit in the center of the pickup itself. I imagine it's epoxied in there. This keeps the bobbins from collapsing. Of course, once it's buzzing, it's basically done.
Lollar (http://www.lollarguitars.com/) is the only source I know of to get new ones from. He uses a plastic type of bobbin that won't collapse. Around 200 each. I need to learn how to rewind one. These are my favorite pickups ever. Any string-thru in fact. |
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Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 27 Jul 2017 8:54 am
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| I also learned to solder. Wasn't too hard, and now I'm good at it! I never did take it to any shop. Most of the time, shops are highly confused by the duo/custom itself, and intimidated by the age of a guitar that says "Fender" on it. |
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Dave Alfstad
From:
Indianola, IA USA
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Posted 27 Jul 2017 11:49 am
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Thanks for the response! I don't know a lot about pickup construction and rebuilding, but if the bobbin needs replaced, wouldn't that require rewinding the pickup as well?
BTW, the guitar I am working on is a Stringmaster, which I know is different than the Dual Pro, so maybe my questions are irrelevant here, but I have a thin, telephony, sound from both pickups on my back neck compared with the other two necks. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 27 Jul 2017 12:10 pm
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Lindy Fralin replaced my Trap bobbins/rewound pickup.
hp
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Chris Byars
From:
Denver, CO
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Posted 27 Jul 2017 4:31 pm
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Ohhh... stringmaster is a different matter. They have the typical under-string pickup. I know for certain Lollar has those for sale. Not sure about anyone else.
In this case I cannot be certain what your buzzing problem is, but if it was working fine before (but started buzzing recently), then a rewind should be all you need. Maybe a magnet recharge instead, or as well. I recommend emailing Lollar to see. I'm interested to find out!
I've recently seen stringmaster pickups on eBay, but I would assume the worst on those--that they may as well be rewound & recharged.
If I knew the impedance and such I would say check the PUPs with a voltmeter to be certain before tearing everything apart.
Good to hear Fralin rewinds the trapezoid! I heard once about eight years ago that Rick Aeillo does trapezoids too. Not sure now. |
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