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Topic: Avatar Cabs |
Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 14 Jul 2009 9:53 am |
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I know some of you have AVATAR CABS...http://www.avatarspeakers.com/
I'm mulling over getting an AVATAR Traditional G112 Cube and was wondering what some of you might recommend for a Celestion Speaker (that's what they use) for somebody who plays mostly blues slide/lap steel with a touch of SRV/Albert Collins/Allman thrown in??
In the unlikely scenario that I go for a 212 cab, what would you recommend for a second speaker? BTW, how does that whole second speaker thing work anyway? The Cliff Notes version for Dummies will suffice. As in, do you get to pick which speaker gives the main sound depending on what you want to do??
Also, the speaker should be good at low volumes too, if that helps any. 
Thanks guys and gals. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Jul 2009 11:12 am Re: Avatar Cabs
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| Stephen Abruzzo wrote: |
........do you get to pick which speaker gives the main sound depending on what you want to do??......
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No--it doesn't work like that. There is no science to this---there are so many variables that it is next to impossible to predict how two speakers will combine, except, of course, for someone's direct experience. For instance I know that Dan Tyack has a specific combination that really kills for him.
Speakers have different degrees of efficiency so one speaker being fed 30 watts will be louder than another speaker at 30. So the more efficient speaker of the pair will be louder than the other. Although there are some ways to wire a pot to attenuate one of the speakers, it is more involved than just sticking standard pot on it and really, it just isn't done that often.
I've read a lot of accounts of people trying for some alchemy with their speaker selection in a 2 x 12 and just not getting the results they thought they would.
Not to discourage you---seek Dan T's input on this (or search--he has mentioned his combo several times) and see what other experiences you can glean.
Bottom line--when you have a 2 x 12 cab, it is what it is. Both speakers on, period.
-----edited to spell Dan's name a bit better...
Last edited by Jon Light on 14 Jul 2009 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 14 Jul 2009 11:46 am
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Mixing speakers can be iffy, and which one do you mic if playing a club? A large majority of 2x12s in existence are loaded with identical speakers.
Another big difference between 2x12 and 1x12 is the comb filtering of the 2x12, that is what causes the slightly chorus like tone that get from 2x12s. Maybe you like it maybe you don't.
On the Celestions, I am a big fan of the Classic Lead 80, the uppermids/highs are smoother than the other Celestions which can be too bright in the upper mids for lap or pedal steel
What kind of head are you driving it with?
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Gary Jones
From:
Mount Vernon, Wa
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Posted 14 Jul 2009 12:15 pm
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Well, actually, the truth is a little more complicated (as things usually are).
If you mix speakers of different impedance ratings, the speaker with the lower value will receive more power from the output stage.
For example: if I have a cabinet with 2 12" speakers, one of them 8 Ohm, and one of them 4 Ohm, wired in parallel, the 4 Ohm speaker will receive twice as much power as the other one. The impedance load the output stage will see is 2.67 Ohms.
There is actually an XL spreadsheet, created by Duncan Amps, that will calculate the power distribution on different speaker configurations, and a good discussion of this matter can be found here: http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/tips/speaker_impedance/
Gary Jones |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 14 Jul 2009 1:16 pm
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A 1x12 cab is plenty for a 4 watt head, for the kind of tone you are describing you will want to drive the speaker. With only the 4 watts the G12M greenback (25 watt) might be a good choice, or for a brighter tone the Alnico Blue (very expensive however)
All Celestions (and many other speakers) get smoother sounding when you hit them with some power, so a second speaker would be overkill for you.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 14 Jul 2009 3:37 pm
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What about the Celestion Clean 80 as that is a neutral speaker and supposedly fabulous for clean sounds? That way I can color my sound with a pedal.
If my other head is the Songworks 3350LT, would that be too much amp for the Greenback 25? |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 14 Jul 2009 8:50 pm
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I have not heard of a Clean 80, but the Classic Lead 80 is a great speaker for clean tones, I have a pair in my Twin Reverb that I play Telecaster and steel through, and it would work for the 50 watt amp.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 15 Jul 2009 6:45 am
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Thanks Scott.
How is the Classic Lead 80 for sound if you put some mild distortion into the mix??? |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2009 9:27 am
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Chiming in here:
I pretty much always prefer a mix of different speakers. I don't think I've ever heard a combination of speakers that didn't sound better than 2 of either kind. It depends on what you are looking for. Two of the same speaker will give a more focused sound ('tight'). Two different speakers will give you a bigger, more three dimensional sound. I always go for bigger rather than sharper, so mixing speakers works for me.
When you are using a tube amp for overdrive, it can be nice to have a speaker which will give a little speaker distortion as well as a really clean speaker.
In terms of specifics, I have used a classic 80 and it's a good clean speaker with a nice low end. I also really like the Century (neo), but that's on the pricy side. But what I would really recommend the THD 2X12" cabinet. It's by far the best sounding 2X12" cabinet at any price. It has the airyness of an open back with the low end of a great 4X12" cabinet. It comes with two different THD speakers that are really complementary. Probably somewhat more that the Avitar, but it's really worth it. |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 15 Jul 2009 9:49 am
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I think it works great for distortion also, when pushed you get the Celestion crunch, although less than with a G12M.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 15 Jul 2009 11:53 am
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Dan.....thanks for the input on speakers/cabs. Much appreciated for that time in the future IF I ever gigged out. I checked out the THD site. Impressive.
Scott...I'm really liking the idea of the Classic Clean 80 in a 1x12.
Re the Celestion 12M 25W Greenback...while it would easily handle the 4W Mack Tube Gem, would it be able to handle the 50W hybrid Songworks 3350LT?? |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 15 Jul 2009 12:42 pm
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I would not suggest 50 watts into a G12M.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Stephen Abruzzo
From:
Philly, PA
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Posted 15 Jul 2009 1:06 pm
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| That's what I thought. I would want a speaker to be able to handle both if possible. Thanks for all the great advice. |
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Brick Spieth
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2009 6:09 pm
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I bought an Avatar 2x12 loaded with a V30 and a G12H (? anyhow their common Celestion pairing). I could not get it to sound good at home volume levels and replaced the speakers with alnico Eminences. The Celestions sounded pretty good at cranked gig levels, but my tweed champ clone is what I wanted to use through the cab. 4 watts will not drive the Celestions to break up.
Avatar builds a good box for the money. |
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