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Topic: Notch filter for high end |
Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 21 Jun 2009 7:25 am |
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Anyone know of a small narrow band sweepable notch filter that could be used on a pedal steel? I have to share an amp between guitar and steel and I'm finding that certain frequencies on the steel (especially 3rd string up past the 7th fret and beyond) get really harsh and give an "ice pick in forehead" type sound. I'd like to tame just that shrill frequency (3 or 4K?) without dulling the entire top end.
Any thoughts?
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https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 21 Jun 2009 8:36 am
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....and you'd rather not use an EQ pedal that you can switch on & off? Like a Boss EQ-7 or whatever.
(By the way...love that Bluejimmy!) |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 21 Jun 2009 9:28 am
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Greg,
What kind of pickup are you using?
If a humbucker, you may be interested in my HSC preamp, it removes the 3-4 kHz harshness and extends the high frequency response.
Check out the sound files at www.steeltronics.com , you can hear with and without the HSC.
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Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 21 Jun 2009 11:10 am
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Thanks Jay! I have a GE-7 (CMAT modded - well worth the price) , but since the filters on that are spaced an octave apart, it takes away a lot of the good high end too. I really think for what I'm looking to fix some surgical precision is what's needed, not broad strokes.
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https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 21 Jun 2009 11:12 am
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Scott - this would be for my Zum stage one. Not exactly sure what the stock pickup is in there. I might be willing to try this route depending on price. Send me a link to some more info on what you offer. Thanks
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2009 1:44 pm
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The problem with getting a precise and surgical notch filter is that you no longer are addressing the tone problem but are only dipping one specific frequency, and the harsh treble you hear covers a spectrum, not one single frequency. It's a complex of overtones that spread out all over the place. The icepick tone problem is much better being addressed by finding tools that will give you a better tone in the first place. Trying to remove one specific frequency is not addressing the problem of a rig's setup that's generating the harshness to begin with. Amps, preamps, pickups, buffers, speakers, tubes, pickup load impedance, etc. There are all kinds of ways to fix that problem without trying to remove it and treat it as just one single offensive frequency. You'll be removing musical harmonics along with it. The problem doesn't live at just one frequency. You may knock out one aspect of the treble problem, but the phase distortion you introduce with sharp filtering may create all kinds of other problems and may actually make things worse at other frequencies.
I don't think that's a good fix. Notch filtering is a band-aid that probably won't stick very well.
Brad |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 21 Jun 2009 5:18 pm
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Brad - that's a lot of variables to think about. I'm not sure what the course of action would be to pinpoint a fix though.
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 22 Jun 2009 5:54 pm
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I did some tests today and I think its a combination of the pickup, the effects and the amp interacting with each other. If I plug straight in to the amp the tone is ever so slightly better but still pretty bright. Going through an effects pedal (Boss -- buffered I assume) increases the highs a little more. Normally thats a good thing to prevent high end loss with long cable runs. I seem to have to opposite problem.
An amp tech friend of mine suggested trying some different cap values on the output jack of the steel - 500 or 1000 pF, to see if it might tame the shrillness a bit.
Perhaps a tone knob is in order for this setup? I just dont want to kill the highs on the low strings too, they sound good with a little sparkle.
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 23 Jun 2009 3:04 am
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| Do you have/can you create the opportunity to try out a number of different speakers? It's probably the single most overlooked aspect of the chain. Not around here maybe, the best steel guitarists are extremely picky about the speakers they use. It's a huge global EQ tool. |
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Jay Ganz
From:
Out Behind The Barn
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Posted 23 Jun 2009 4:57 am
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I don't think you mentioned which amp and speaker you're playing through.
Using caps on your steel output is like switching off a brite switch on an amp.
1000pf may be a bit much though.
More like 250pf. Brite switches on Fender amps are 120pf. |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 23 Jun 2009 6:59 am
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I may be heading for a seperate amp for the steel on this one. The amp I'm trying to pull double duty from is a great guitar amp - 30 watt tube class A, but it doesn't have enough clean headroom to handle the steel. I think that's part of what I'm hearing. I really didn't want to have to haul 2 amps to a gig but... I don't want to modify that amp in any way because my 6 strings sound great.
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 23 Jun 2009 2:05 pm
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| As Brad says, what you need is to change the sound of one string, not one frequency. First, make sure there's no roughness on the crown of the finger where the string rests. Then, try replacing the string. (I've had strings that would "sing" for no reason, and a replacement cured the problem.) Other things you might try would be a heavier guage string, or inserting a very thin piece of plastic under the string at the crown of the finger (a technique used by Richard Burton, among others). |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 23 Jun 2009 3:45 pm
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30-watt, class A guitar amp? Yeah, if you love it for guitar, bring a separate steel amp.
There are other solutions. I use a pedal steel amp, but then preamp my guitar with a modeler like the Pod, and run that into that steel amp's pre-EQ insert - works OK.
But I listened to your sound clips on the bluejimmy web page - sounds great. I wouldn't mess with your guitar tones. It ain't that tough to bring along a NV 112 or something like that for pedal steel. More or less like bringing a Deluxe Reverb - pretty similar in size and weight. Of course, the problem up here in Yankee-land is finding one to try out to see if you like it.
Just my take, as always. |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 23 Jun 2009 6:08 pm
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That's good advice guys - I'll give those string ideas a try, certainly a low cost option. I'm also wondering if the "freeloader" Brad Sarno offers might offer some help?
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