2 old Germans to lap style? Are they made for steel strings?

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · From: Denmark, Copenhagen

Hello,

I have an opportunity to buy the two guitars below for a very low price (very). The seller calls them “Western” (the first two pics) and “Ragtime” (last two pics) and claims that they are able to hold steel strings and that the reason they look like classical guitars (the bridges as well) is that back when they were made (1960s) there wasn’t much difference between the classicals and the small bodied steel string guitars. To me it simply looks like a classical guitar bridge and since I want to set them up for lap slide playing I have to get steel strings on them. Though, as you can see in the photo the “Ragtime” actually has steel strings on it now (but perhaps its bridge is different from the other one? Notice the screw in the middle) and they are both pretty odd looking for the classical guitars I've seen, with the sunburst and the blonde flame maple on their respective backs and sides.

But I wanted to check with you guys – what do you think are these guitars made for steel or nylon?

Also, he talks about experimenting with Martin’s low tension Silk & Steel – would that work for playing lap slide?

The guitars are made by German luthier Hans Hau, whom all I know about is that he died a couple of years ago at the age of 90 – about ten years after his shop burned down(!) But he has made some really beautiful guitars and a lot of mandolins as well, I think. If anyone has got more information it would be great. There is very little about him online.

Thanks,
Hans

Photos:

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

I would say "NO". If they are braced for nylon strings they will be damaged by the steel strings. The bridge may pull off, the neck may pull at the heel or the top could warp, crack or split. I'm not a guitar builder, but I do a lot of work with a guy who does.
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer

Don McGregor · From: Memphis, Tennessee

Some pictures of the headstock would be helpful, as often the tuners are obviously made for gut strings. Silk and Steel strings are not good for anything, as far as I'm concerned. Rubber bands would be just about as good. I use Martin light gauge phosphor bronze strings on my steel string acoustics, and a standard Martin classical set on my classical.
Rick is right about the bracing and all. If the guitar is built as a classical, then that's what it is. From your pictures, these look like they could be great guitars, but trying to make them into something they are not sounds dangerous to me. Depending on what string gauges and tunings you use, converting any guitar for slide can put greater tension and stress on the neck and bracing than regular Spanish tuning, and often more than the builder originally intended.
I've seen'em fold up like a cheap lawn chair.

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

+1 - I'd be very afraid that the bridge gets torn off with steel strings on those (esp. with the higher pull with some of the tunings used for lap steel playing).

Why did you want to get these one? There are plenty of inexpensive, but quite useable steel string acoustic guitars around these days; if it#s the smaller body size, you could look at some of the "parlor-sized" acoustics, like these:

http://www.thomann.de/dk/artlutherie_ami_steel_antique_burst.htm (no personal experience, but this one gets GREAT reviews all the time)

http://www.thomann.de/dk/epiphone_l00.htm

http://www.thomann.de/dk/yamaha_jr1.htm (The shorter scale might be practical if you use slant bar chords a lot, and you can never go wrong with Yamaha acoustics...)

http://www.thomann.de/dk/cort_earth_mini_travel_guitar.htm (also shorter scaled)

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

You should probably stay away from them. I doubt that the bridges could take steel strings, especially tuned to tension for lap steel. The bridge on one is already coming off - the reason someone put screws in it. The other problem would be the neck and neck block. If they're typical classic guitar construction, the tension won't just pull the neck from the block, it'll separate the entire block assembly from the back of the guitar.
There are lots of old guitars that are better candidates for conversion to lap - just look for one with a good sized pin-type bridge.
_________________
John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · From: Denmark, Copenhagen

Thanks guys - I know putting steel strings on a classical guitar won't work.

My question was whether these could actually have been made for steel strings as the seller claims?

Sorry, if I wasn't clear about that.

Thanks,
Hans

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Sorry. The guitars both have bridges meant for tying the strings. I have seen guitars that were made like this, and be for steel strings...at Walmart. It sounds like this was a pro-builder, could you do any research on his other instruments. I have never seen a classical tie end bridge on a steel-string guitar that was worth having. These do look like nice instruments. One option is that the builder didn't want a peg-style bridge, but it seems unlikely. Do you know or trust the seller?
_________________
RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer

Manfred Nabinger · From: Germany

If the guitar was constructed for steel strings it would not

- need srcrews to hold the bridge
- have a classical bridge
- have a straight bridge without compensation

But maybe you CAN play it lap style: the bridge is already nailed to the board, and if you use a high nut & bridge it does not matter if the neck comes up.

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

I believe, from looking at the photos, that both guitars were built with nylon strings as the intended string type. The one that has steel strings on it already has had the bridge starting to lift, hence the large screw in the center of the bridge.

You may be able to put steel strings on these guitars and not suffer any damage; however, I doubt it. If the price is really that low, what do you have to lose? The wood would probably make a pretty fire. Smile

_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · From: Denmark, Copenhagen

He, yeah - it's almost the price of fire wood, but still I'd hate to go through the process of making and nut etc. to have the thing snap in half right in front of me Wink

But thank you very much all of you - I'll stay away from them unless the guy throws them in for free (then they'll at least serve me well come winter Wink

.

Thanks,
Hans

Roman Sonnleitner · From: Vienna, Austria

If you are absolutely intent on trying these with steel strings, you might try to use a trapeze tailpiece (like these: http://www.rockinger.com/index.php?cat=WG086&lang=ENG&product=3605C%2F3605G ) for holding the strings - at least the danger of the bridge getting torn off the top would be relieved...

John Allison · From: Austin, Texas, USA

There's nothing in the pictures you show that would indicate anything other than a nylon string guitar. As Roman says, you can try the trapeze style tailpiece, but you still run the risk of putting far too much strain on the neck and neck joint. Also, when you use a tailpiece on a guitar that's not designed for it, the sound is diminished quite a bit.
_________________
John Allison
Allison Stringed Instruments
Austin, Texas
www.allisonguitars.com

Rainer Schmidt · From: Eastwestfalia - Germany

I once tried a sister of "Ragtime" at a local shop. (Original) nut of this particular guitar was cut for steel strings, bridge like those pictured as far as I remember.
I found its tone very pleasing. A nice, singing voice for fingerstyle. (preferably strung with light gauge silver steel / silk&steel).
It did have a bowed neck and eventually sold for 60 EU.

Hans Henrik Rasmussen · From: Denmark, Copenhagen

Rainer - that is certainly interesting. Great that you have actually played one and interesting that it was originally set up for steel strings, though I guess if light gauge silver steel or Silk & Steel is recommended then converting to lap style will still put too much pressure on it. I don't suppose you remember anything about the bracing or anything else that might say something about what kind of pressure they can take?

Well, at least we're getting to be a bit wiser on these (kind of weird) guitars Smile

.

Thanks,
Hans

Forum Index > Steel Without Pedals		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: