E9 vs C6

James Mayer · Posted 16 Jun 2009 9:04 pm

I have decent grounding in chord theory and I'm familiar with C6 on non-pedal steel. I'm going to be starting down the PSG road soon and want to decide on a copedent to begin with. The E9 looks obvious because the A & B pedals take you from the I to the IV chord. I can't see anything obvious about C6 for pedal steel. What am I missing?

Steve Hitsman · From: Waterloo, IL

Where to start?

You only need one pedal on C6 to go from I to IV. Pedal 6 raises the second string a half step and lowers the sixth string a half. Voila! a IV9 chord.

Herb Steiner · From: Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064

James
This will be an EXTREMELY simplified answer, but will be a starting point.

With the C6, you need to think of extended dominant chords instead of the simple I-IV major voicings of the E9 pedals A and B.

Just as a starting point with pedals, let's consider the two basic pedals of the C6 as pedals 5 and 6.

Pedal 5 gives you a D9 chord. Very common and useful right there, and if you move that up 3 frets you now have an F9 chord (a 4 dominant), move it 5 frets and you have a G9 chord (a 5 dominant).

So, if you move the bar from the home fret up 5 frets, you go from a I major chord to a IV major chord, press pedal 5 and you now have your V dominant. Voila! I-IV-V7!

Pedal 6 yields an F9 chord at the home fret position (4 dominant). Move that chord up 2 frets and you have a G9 (another 5 dominant).

When used together, on strings 9 through 3, you have a full diminished chord. Diminished chords are common substitutions for both dominant chords and minor chords.

A big part of the C6 playing is the substitution of certain minor chord triads for dominant chords, but that comes in Lesson Two. Wink

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David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

My setup is fairly involved - 5 pedals and 4 knees, all just on a single 10-string C6th - but using them, I essentially have SIX open tunings to choose from, of the major 6th/minor & dominant 7th persuasion mostly. That's not counting the diminished and other altered ones. In C6th, choosing which strings to play out of the 10 is critical (AKA "grips" in steel lingo). There's a lot of strummy-type chords available just to whang out blues, but to be accurate in playing a specific grouping you have to work through your positions and pedals, slowly and carefully. The operant word is "slowly"... Mr. Green

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

If you are going to play several types of music, I would go for a double 10 guitar or a Universal single 12. This way you have everything you need for country, rock, blues, swing, jazz etc.

If I was just starting on pedal steel, I would look very seriosly at an S-12 universal. You already have some background, so you have a good start.

I use a D10 now only because I have many extra knee levers and pedals, I most likely wouldn't be able to fit on a universal. But for a newbie to PSG, a universal would be my first choice.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Another consideration is whether you area a "self-teacher", or will be looking to acquire a bunch of instructional material (or even watch a bunch of YouTube instruction), because probably 95% or more of that is written for E9 for country-oriented styles, or C6 for jazz-swing type styles. Now, if you're a self-motivated, self-teacher with good ears, you can do a lot of either on either tuning, but the path of least resistance (not that I'm necessarily advocating that) would be E9 for country styles and C6 for swing/jazz. Universal, as stated above, is a great option, but again for a self-teacher, since there's just not much instruction available for it, either in print, DVD, or in-person.
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Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

re: the universal option
I've been playing E9/B6 for more than 35 years and one of the key benefits I've realized is that you DON'T need instructional material specifically written for a universal setup. If one reads C6 tab from the bottom string up and E9 tab from the top string down, very little 'translation' is necessary.

I understand that it's not for everyone but some of the arguments against it just don't hold water. The U12 can play 4 Wheel Drive or Kicks to Boot as well as it can Danny Boy or Way to Survive.

If you think of it as one big tuning you realize that E9 is a position of C6 and C6 (well, B6) is a position of E9. Many more relationships and commonalities are there than most folks realize.

Just my take on it.
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Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

If you want to try out some pedal steels that have these tunings on them, feel free to give me a ring.
I'm sure we can clear this right up (good one!... more like... open one of the biggest funnest cans of worms of your musical lifetime. Smile

)
I'm just off the Terwilliger exit on I-5.
Pete B.
cell: 503-621-8209

Edward Meisse · From: Santa Rosa, California, USA

I recently went to pedals, myself. I decided on a S10 C6. The reason is because what I play is Great American Songbook. That's the popular music and most of the jazz from about 1890 until about 1960 plus some things after that. The other reason is because I was already playing C6 on non pedal steel. I don't really play any country at all. I got the Herby Wallace 5 + 3 setup except that I did get a D first string rather than the G. That necessitated a lever to raise the 3rd string C to a C#. So I actually have a 5 + 4. I also added the Buddy Emmons 1/2 step raise of the first string onto pedal 5. I think the Buddy Emmons 5 + 4 setup is more popular. I think they can both be found here on the forum in the tunings section. I'm very happy with my choice so far.
The Jeff Newman C6 instructional material is all you'll ever need. At least it looks like all I'll ever need.
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