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Topic: Multikord question |
Felix Wolfe
From:
Corvallis,oregon, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2009 5:44 am |
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Hi
I have searched the past posts here to get information on the Multikord, and have found lots of background. I have also looked at one, and see how it works , on a mechanical level. (I cant play one yet.)
Since I play finger style guitar (Travis, Atkins sort of playing)I want to transfer what I do on the regular 6 string guitar to a pedal guitar, and since the Multikord has been nicknamed a "chord changer", I wonder if it will work better for me than a regular pedal guitar.
I guess my problem is that I dont see the difference between a Multikord and a regular pedal guitar. That is, dont both types change the open chord being played if you press a pedal down ?
Maybe someone has actually tried playing Travis style of both types and can give me an opinion.
Thanks for your time in advance, and next time, I'll try to write a shorter question  |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2009 10:13 am
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If you go to "google" and type in "Bobbe Seymour Thumbstyle youtube" the first thing that comes up if you click on it will be Bobbe playing a triple neck Bigsby, & picking thumbstyle. Just like Travis or Atkins only different. 
Since you can put any tuning on a Multi-Kord on each pedal within the limits of string stretch from pedal to pedal, I see no reason why one wouldn't work well for you.
Multi-Kords are capable of raising or lowering each and or all strings with each pedal.
The tunings can be re-tuned & changed to another tuning within a matter of minutes. And you don't have to turn the guitar upside down or stand on your head to do it. 
It's a shame modern country steels don't have that feature.  To my knowledge none being built today do. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 18 Jun 2009 3:42 pm
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The Multi-Kord is a very old, cheap, and flimsy design. It doesn't really lend itself to the modern stylings where you continuously "squeeze" and bend from one chord to another. Modern pedal steels are more made for smooth and flowing moves, and they light-years past the old Multi Kord's for reliability and robustness.
If you're contemplating finger-style playing, I think you'd probably be better off with a more modern S10 or D10 model. You also ought to buy the "Thumbs Up" tape by Bobby Garrett (available right here on the Forum). Bobby was probably one of the best "thumb style" steel players you'll ever hear.  |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2009 5:53 pm
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2009 8:21 pm
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Yes Donny is right about cheap and flimsy design of the Multi-Kords. However there was a reason for that. Harlin Bros. had a studio where they taught both private and classes for Hawaiian pedal steel guitar. ( their Multi-Kord ) Most students or parents of students could not afford a high priced guitar back in the late 40's & early 50's. In 48 you could buy a 4 pedal 6 string Multi-Kord for under $200.00. Harlin Bros contributed a lot to the promotion of steel guitar back then. We need more of that today.
When the Multi-Kord came out the only other comparable pedal steel guitar being built was a Gibson Electra Harp which had a similar changer that was not as good as the Harlin Bros. changer, and did not stay in tune well for lack of lock nuts on the tuning screws. Gibson had to quit making their Electra Harp because of infringment of Harlin's patent rights. Jay Harlin was the first by the way to patent a pedal steel guitar.
Donny, I know you do some teaching and I know you are a good pedal steel guitar player. If a person wanted to change the tuning to an entirely differnt tuning on just one pedal of a modern pedal steel guitar, what would a person have to do to accomplish it. For just a rough estimate, about how long would it be expected to take, a few minutes, an hour, or several hours, and could the average player do it with ease or would he probably need to take it to an expert to have it done? |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2009 9:37 pm
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| Quote: |
| If a person wanted to change the tuning to an entirely differnt tuning on just one pedal of a modern pedal steel guitar, what would a person have to do to accomplish it. For just a rough estimate, about how long would it be expected to take, a few minutes, an hour, or several hours, and could the average player do it with ease or would he probably need to take it to an expert to have it done? |
I'm not Donny - "yes" to the yes/no parts and 12 hours to a full weekend to the other.
This is because it completely depends on the guitar and the rod/changer design. Changing to a different copedent isn't just a matter of moving parts around, either - normally you need new parts - different length rods, additional (or fewer) bellcranks, etc.
A GFI Ultra is made for ease of servicing/modifying and a wholesale change is a weekend project for someone who has not done it before ONCE you have all the parts - it takes that long experimenting with different rod positions on the bellcrank to get the right travel and fell (i.e. not too stiff).
Then I look at something like a rack & barrel Shobud (not really that modern a guitar) and get the feeling it'd take a week. I tried switching an MSA Classic I had around and it simply didn't want to do some thing I DID.
Translation - if you want to change to an unusual copedent and have no maintenance/mod experience, either work with a steel guitar shop (ship it and have them do it) or contact the manufacturer and see if they'll help. Some are more receptive than others. But I would not do it yourself unless you have experience with both mechanics and guitar building; a lot of electric (and acoustic) guitar tech skills carry over to steel setup.
Back to the Multi-Kord; it's very simple to change, as is a Gibson - but the point others were trying to (I think) make is that the pedal travel is VERY long and usually very stiff, plus the pedal positions are often wierd. They just do not lend themselves to "normal" playing.
Fenders were intended as "chord changers" but players found they could play the "modern" way on them, especially with a few modifications. They are also quick to change - I can re-set a copedent in about 30 minutes, and with a few tweaks they pay quite nicely, even though they are not a match for "normal" steels as far as really modern playing goes. OTOH if you play "Americana", "retro", alt country" or rock or blues they are really fine guitars.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 19 Jun 2009 5:19 am
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Thanks Jim,
You did a great job of making my point. If you go back to the top Felix is interested in playing thumbstyle on a "six" string steel guitar.
I have done a few modifications to my Multi-Kord which makes it much less "flimsy" and added 3/8 stainless steel pedal rods that never break. I have played it since the early sixties and it still holds up and is going strong. I wish I were!
I have said it before here,--that the modern steel guitar makers have beautifully & very well made products. There is not doubt about that. 
What I have always hoped for was that they would make much simpler changers, that function well and the copedents can be changed in a matter of minutes by the average player without all the aggravation of taking hours or even days to accomplish. 
The changers on my Multi-Kords "will" do that and they "do" stay in tune well, so I know it can be done. Not only that they are much simpler made and with fewer parts. I can take my changer completely out of my guitar, partially disassemble, clean it, put it back in, lubricate it, re string & re-tune it to a different copedant, and be playing it in about three hours.
No "modern" steel being made today that I know of will even come close to having that feature.  |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 6:20 am
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Danny,
I have a multikord I picked up a few years back mainly for the purpose of using it to play "lap steel", and using the pedals to change the key of the strings, so i wouldn't have to have two (or three) different lap steels).
We pretty much all agree that they are a bit flimsy. Can you tell me or show me some pictures of some modifications you did?
Things i would ultimately like to do is give the pedals a more solid feel and strenghthen the legs somehow. The two removable legs that came on mine were essentially thin copper tubing which "slid onto a ridged nub sticking out of the body". If you lift the guitar up a little to move it, the leg will slide of the ridged nub and fall off. I would also like to replace the cables with rods if it is not too difficult, Would appreciate any advice, pictures etc on a tuning and ways to modify legs and add rods. Hopefully the rods or legs can be bought local and not cost to much.
Thanks
kristen |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 12:20 pm
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| You have to double clutch on a Multi Chord. You think Toyota pedals stick??? |
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David Beckner
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 12:42 pm
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I have a multikord for sale on the forum..I have fooled around with different tunings and such on this..i find it as a great little guitar..it is just limited as to what i want to do...BUT FLIMSY....NEVER
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 1:19 pm
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| Kevin Hatton wrote: |
| You have to double clutch on a Multi Chord. You think Toyota pedals stick??? |
Hi Kevin,
I'm sorry your having a problem with pedals sticking on a Multi-Kord. I keep my changer properly adjusted, & nut & bridge rollers clean, & lightly oiled, and they never do that.
I can think of several things that could possibly cause that to happen though.
One is a bent adjusting screw that tunes the pedals and could be getting against the side of one of the fingers. Another would be dirt in the changer, which may need to be removed and thouroughly cleaned. You may not be bottoming out right on the top cross bars in the changer and causing one to stick. A bottom cross bar may not be bottoming out flush either. The roller nut and / or bridge rollers could be frozen and sticking. If that is the case you will need to take them out and remove the rollers. Then steel wool the roller shafts and re-install.
Let me know if any of this helps and best of luck,
Danny |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 1:44 pm
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| Kristen Bruno wrote: |
Danny,
I have a multikord I picked up a few years back mainly for the purpose of using it to play "lap steel", and using the pedals to change the key of the strings, so i wouldn't have to have two (or three) different lap steels).
We pretty much all agree that they are a bit flimsy. Can you tell me or show me some pictures of some modifications you did?
Things i would ultimately like to do is give the pedals a more solid feel and strenghthen the legs somehow. The two removable legs that came on mine were essentially thin copper tubing which "slid onto a ridged nub sticking out of the body". If you lift the guitar up a little to move it, the leg will slide of the ridged nub and fall off. I would also like to replace the cables with rods if it is not too difficult, Would appreciate any advice, pictures etc on a tuning and ways to modify legs and add rods. Hopefully the rods or legs can be bought local and not cost to much.
Thanks
kristen |
Kristen, I have sent you an e-mail.
I am not able to send picutures via the Forum. However what I did was remove the aluminum square cross bars from underneath the changer and make new ones out of steel that I welded a loop on the under side to accept a hook bent in a 3/16 stainless steel welding rod. I bent a hook in the other end of the rods to snap in place into the U-bolts that go thru the pedals.
Then I used 1/8 inch X 1 inch aluminum to make cross braces on the changer/pedal end that go from near the top of the legs to just above the pedal shaft.
The original legs are not copper but are aluminum tubing and the lug that screws into the Multi-Kord body is pressed into the aluminum tube / legs, and they are not loose on mine at all.
This makes a Multi-Kord much more solid and you never need worry any more about pedal cable breakage which MK's are noted for. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 2:13 pm
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| Excellent advise Danny. Bravo. |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 4:49 pm
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Kristen also was asking about Multi-Kord tunings. I have shown what Harlin Bros. used on their Hawaiian pedal Steel Guitars that they sold in their store and started their students on before, but here they are again if anyone's interested.
Note--It's is almost impossible to tune the pedals without a special screwdriver/socket wrench combination that they furnished with MK's.
Open strings Low Bass High to Low for 6 string 4 & 6 pedal.
No pedals E, C#, A, E, A, E
Pedals starting with the one farthest from you while sitting behind the MK. (6 pedal)
C#mi.7th tuning-- E, C#, G#, E, B, E
E tuning--------- E, B, G#, E, B, E
Emi. tuning-------E, B, G, E B E
C6th--------------E, C, A, G, A, E
D7th. added 9th---E, C, A, F#, A, D
A6th.-------------E, C# A, F#, A, E
On four pedal eliminate pedals Emi. & C6th.
However these guitars are designed to raise or lower any and all strings with each pedal in any combination, so any tuning will work within the limits of string stretch so as to return to original pitch. No pedal steel guitar that I know of being made today has that capability. |
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David Beckner
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 5:37 pm
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since we have gone so deep into this matter - I was just wondering -are there any parts resources for these..might pull my off sale and put pedals back on..
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 5:53 pm
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To my mind the Multi-Kord has two main problems...
[1] The folding legs are unsteady. Modification with screw-in legs would make it more secure.
[2] The pedal position is a little awkward. I've been intending to put some regular pedals on one for some time, but I haven't gotten round to it yet.
Notwithstanding those two problems, although it was originally marketted as a chord-changer system, you CAN change chords while playing just as on any modern PSG. There's no need to "double declutch" as on the inferior contemporary Gibson mechanism. (Note that MultiKords don't have knee levers.) |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 6:14 pm
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David, I talked to John Quarterman of the Quarterman cone for dobro/ resinator type guitars, on the phone about 6 mo. ago and he still has some parts for Multi-Kords as he bought the surplus from the Co. that was manufacturing them when Harlins went out of business. However he told me he doesn't have any pedals. If you e-mail me I will tell you how to get in touch with him.
The pedals are made from sand cast aluminum and if you can borrow some from someone and have molds made you could have a local aluminum foundry pour them I would think. A local welding / machine shop might be able to help you out as well.
Alan your right about the legs and the pedals. I have often thought about doing that myself.
Kevin, thanks for the nice compliment. |
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David Beckner
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 6:56 pm
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Danny Thanks for your help, gives me something to think about.......as far as leg issues I have not noticed any with the one I have.
_________________
WILCOX SD10 (love the white mica)
WALKER SEAT
NASHVILLE 400
BEHRINGER RACK TUNER
CUSH CASE RACK
PEAVEY DELTA FEX
PARTS CASTER.Gospel and Classic Country Music
http://www.dbupholstery.yolasite.com |
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Kristen Bruno
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 7:43 pm
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Danny,
I got your email and read the advice given and it is helpful.Thanks.
My multikord has 4 pedals and eight strings.
How would you adapt the tuning of the 6 string you mentioned below to 8 strings?
C#mi.7th tuning-- E, C#, G#, E, B, E
E tuning--------- E, B, G#, E, B, E
Emi. tuning-------E, B, G, E B E
C6th--------------E, C, A, G, A, E
D7th. added 9th---E, C, A, F#, A, D
A6th.-------------E, C# A, F#, A, E
Also I can see that the strings in the different tunings are "close to each other - give or take a few sharps or flats" to accomadate using only one set of strings. What would you suggest as the "open tuning" for the (eight) strings before any pedals are used? And the gages?
thanks.
superkristen |
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Danny James
From:
Summerfield Florida USA
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Posted 27 Feb 2010 8:32 pm
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Kristen the string gauges I use on the six string Multi-kords are---
.016, .017, .022, .030W, .038W, .050W. I order them in the bulk from Musicians Friend a dozen of each at a time. They come under the Rogue brand and work fine for me.
I'm sorry but, personally have not gotten into using 8 strings, but, I'm sure there are others here such as Alan Brooks or Bazilh who could offer a lot of good suggestions for 8 strings and even alternate tunings & string diameters. I saw in your e-mail that you do a lot of Blues, which may help them with their suggestions.
Best of luck,
Danny |
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Alan Brookes
From:
Brummy living in Southern California
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Posted 28 Feb 2010 12:07 pm
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| Danny James wrote: |
...I'm sorry but, personally have not gotten into using 8 strings, but, I'm sure there are others here such as Alan Brooks or Bazilh who could offer a lot of good suggestions for 8 strings and even alternate tunings & string diameters. I saw in your e-mail that you do a lot of Blues, which may help them with their suggestions.
... |
Yes, I've always played a lot of blues, as the following recordings will attest...
Recorded two years ago at the home of Basil Henriques. I'vr just got back from another pleasant (and instructive ) visit, and while I was there we downloaded this improvisation from Basil's hard disk. We play alternate verses, Basil on pedal steel and me on resonator guitar.
http://www.7161.com/css_track.cfm?track__dt_track_id=19101
Click on 
http://www.7161.com/css_track.cfm?track__dt_track_id=19102
I've always loved to play the blues. Basil doesn't play much blues because it's not his normal style, and how many times can you play the same song over ?
Part One is mainly me, with a few verses from Basil. Part Two is mainly Basil, with a few verses from me.
Whilst in England I had the opportunity to perform twice at the Black Diamond Folk Club in Birmingham...
As far as tunings are concerned, on 8-strings I usually play the blues in standard C6 tuning, or in standard G (Dobro) tuning for the top six strings, with the lowest two strings ignored. You don't need 8 strings with G or E tuning because the intervals between strings are greater than with C6. For decades I played blues in standard E tuning, but you just end up sounding like a bottleneck player if you're not careful. The above blues was played in standard G (Dobro) tuning. |
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