Help with changing ergonomic setup

Simon Turner · From: New Zealand

Hi ya,

I got a Jackson Blackjack pedal steel 8 or 9 months ago and now I'm starting to get the hang of it a tiny bit I'm realising it's not very well setup for me at all.

I'm 5'7" tall and it's too high for me, I have to have my seat quite high and even then I struggle with the knee levers.

Dawn from Jackson steels has been super helpful and is offering to send out some new legs and pedal rods customized to my size (I'm in New Zealand), so now I'm thinking, how high do I want it?

I figure I should look at it this way:
First set my seat at the most comfortable level, pretty much with my thighs being horizontal, as recommended by occupational therapsists for avoiding back issues.
Then I need to decide how much of a gap between the top of my thigh and the bottom of my guitar there should be. I'm thinking maybe 2 inches? It's reasonably close but no so close that a little up and down movement withthelegs won't have me brushing the bottom of the guitar with my thighs.

Am I on track or should I be looking at it another way? is 2 inches enough, or too little or too much?

Is having the seat for horizontal thighs the best, or might I then have issues with my right leg being raised with it sitting on a volume pedal and my left being cocked back abovve the pedals. Would I be better with the seat a touch higher?

Oh and another thing, what fret do most people centre themselves in front of? With where my knee levers are, I can't be any further right than about the 9th or 10th fret or when I go to use my C pedal I end up moving the right hand knee lever.

Thanks for any comments,

Simon

ps. I've got the standard Blackjack with 3 pedals and 2 knee levers, just in case that's pertinent.

David Doggett · Posted 3 Jun 2009 4:57 pm

Yes, you want the seat height so your thighs are parallel to the floor, maybe slightly higher to accomondate the volume pedal. As for the guitar height, you really want the lowest part of the body and undercarriage to just clear your legs, with maybe 1/2" clearance. This should allow your forearms to be parallel to the floor, and your wrists straight.

Most people center themselves a few frets to the right of the 12th fret. Most pedal steels allow you to adjust where the knee levers hang, so that you can hit the C pedal without activating the LKR (left knee, push right) lever. Also, you will want to be able to rock onto the A pedal without activating LKL.

Simon Turner · From: New Zealand

Thanks David, that's just the sort of advice I was looking for, cheers.

That's an excellent point about my forearms and wrists being set right as well.

I'll have a look at my Blackjack and see if I can adjust the location of the knee levers.

Thanks again.

Simon

Calvin Walley · From: colorado city colorado, USA

i have always believed that getting the guitar to fit you is 1/2 the battle of learning to play it
_________________
proud parent of a sailor

Mullen SD-10 /nashville 400
gotta love a Mullen!!!

Guitars that i have owned in order are :
Mullen SD-10,Simmons SD-10,Mullen SD-10,Zum stage one,Carter starter,
Sho-Bud Mavrick

richard burton · From: Britain

I've got short legs, and I'm just about 5 foot 6 on a good day Very Happy

If you are of similar build, I have found these pedal and knee lever positions to be the most ergonomic.

I centre myself at the seventeenth fret, and play CBA (Jimmy Day), so you might want to take the following dimensions slightly towards the nut end of the steel.

Pedal C directly under the nut
Pedal B under F# fret
Pedal A in between G# and A fret.
LKL under the G fret
LKR under the C# fret
RKL under the A (17th) fret
RKR about 4" from the changer end of the steel

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

I am with Dave in thinking 1/2" of clearance is all you need but don't forget to allow for the range of shoes you may be wearing. If you set it up for thin flat soled shoes and then try to play with a pair of cowboy boots you may not fit.
I am 5'8" and have never had a problem with any standard sized steel fitting me so make sure the guitar legs are as short as they can go before you start ordering new parts.

Simon Turner · From: New Zealand

Thanks everyone for the responses, I'll definitely plan for 1/2" clearance I think, I always play with chuck taylors so I should be OK shoes wise, excellent point to consider though.

I don't even own a pair of cowboy boots to be honest, should I be admitting this on the forum? Will I be vilified? Razz

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

It's pretty hard to generalize, as different as different individuals' anatomies are. I'm 5'8", with (I think) legs on the short side for my height. When I sit on my standard height GFI Pak-a-Seat at my standard height Mullen D-10, my thighs slope downward a bit and my right thigh with my foot (wearing a typical "running" shoe) on the Hilton standard height volume pedal has 1 3/4" clearance below the back apron, left leg naturally more. I have a 1" extender on the vertical lever to bring it closer to my leg. If I sit up straight my arms are basically parallel to the floor. Everything works fine for me. To get the guitar down to 1/2" clearance with my thighs parallel to the floor, I'd have to have the guitar legs, pedal rods, and seat legs custom-cut down to less than standard height, and I don't see the need.

David Doggett · Posted 5 Jun 2009 8:43 pm

Well, if it works for you Brint, it works. Can't argue with success. I'm 5'10", and standard height guitars work fine for me. If I were shorter, I would be worried that the longer action arc for the longer levers would cause me to have to push the levers too far. That would bother me, and would seem to be even more a problem with shorter legs. But maybe moving the lever changer rods to a further slot in the bell crank would shorten the arc and solve that. So maybe adjustments can make it work. Vertical levers also have their own problems if you are too far below the undercarriage. But again, maybe adjustments can deal with that.

Another issue is that a short guitar might be harder to resell than a standard height one. But if you custom order shorter legs and pedal rods for a used guitar, you just keep the standard ones and have them if you ever want to resell. On a new instrument, it might be wise to order both a short set and a standard set. Either way, you will then have both for resell, which will further broaden your market. I wouldn't think an extra set of legs and pedal rods would be prohibitively expensive. There's an interesting thread running right now about comfort vs. tone. A good case is made that comfort and a good fit are very important for playing this physically demanding instrument. The good news is that these days we can have both comfort and good tone.

Dennis Saydak · From: Manitoba, Canada

Here's a picture of a famous PSGist that clearly illustrates what works for him. He looks very comfortable to me so far as arm and leg placement is concerned (relative to the guitar body). His right leg is a little closer to the underside of the guitar because of the volume pedal, which isn't shown.

_________________
Dennis
Just when you think you're getting ahead in the rat race, the rats get faster.

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