Is popularity A Necessary Part Of Advancing Musically?

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

I think quite the opposite may be true.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

I think popularity can get you more gigs but that doesn't always mean advancing musically. Although maybe having more opportunities as a result of being popular can translate into more musical experiences which could help with advancing.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Necessary? No. The existence of counterexamples is sufficient to disprove necessity. I will not bore you with a list of great composers and musicians who were largely ignored in their time.

I agree with Dave Z. that being sufficiently popular to play a lot can indeed contribute to musical advancement. But wallowing in the tribute of popular aggrandizement can be a sure road to musical stagnation. IMO, the popular music world is replete with examples of this. I think this is true for any artist, or scientist for that matter. I personally think that to continue to advance in any serious intellectual or artistic field, one needs to keep an edge on. I've seen people do that with or without popularity.

Bill Dobkins · From: Rolla Missouri, USA

If you do I'm in deep doo doo. Oh Well

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Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

It don't hurt to be a pretty,long legged blond,check out the GOO, DYKBC.
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Bo Legg · Posted 18 May 2009 11:14 pm

Bill Hankey

James Martin (U.K.) · From: Watford, Herts, United Kingdom * R.I.P.

As Oscar put it "If it's popular it's wrong "

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

But Oscar Wilde was always a man, or should I say a snob, who would prefer a well turned epigram before saying anything useful!
In general, it is fair to say that people who become popular are those who have mastered the art of easy accessibility- with or without the help of marketing crews.
However good a performer is, however creative a musician, his or her work must be accessible, or at least recognised as being music, by an audience.
That is a first step to popularity- might be the only one!
Cheers
Dave

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Within the realm of possibilities lurks the quotation by Oscar Wilde, "I can resist everything except temptation." Walking away from temptations that are short-lived, is our first test of strength at creativity levels. Fighting down the multiplicity of distractions, and realizing sigificant musical gains are products of dedication, not popularity, per se, makes a great deal of sense.

John Fox · From: Quantico and Crozet, Virginia, USA

Dear Mr. Hankey and colleagues,

Would it be helpful to distinguish celebrity from talent in this talk of musical advancement? Celebrity depends on other people's admiration, and on their needs, rather than only on the musician's gifts or quality. For example, I think Madonna has achieved great celebrity through her dedication and insight into shaping and knowing her audience. Her musical talent and achievements do not seem as significant. Smile

I hope that doesn't sound snobbish, but it only takes a gimmick or two to please a good-sized crowd. I doubt I'll ever be a musical celebrity, so that may show a bias in my thinking. Oh Well

I admit some musicians are more interested in accessibility to their audience than to the other areas that constitute talent and musicianship. Some are flashy, trying to beat their competition. Such achievements provide zest and flair, but may lack depth. By contrast, J.S. Bach achieved some early notoriety for "pernicious innovation," but his masterworks derive from a focus on religious meaning. His music is often prayerful, and properly belongs in a church rather than a stadium. He was hardly a hermit, however, and was known to sneak off to get a beer during sermons.

I believe talent is an inner gift, and its development is what I think of as "musical advancement." Talent grows by dint of long labor ("wood-shedding") and careful reflection, and this can be assisted by the observations and responses of an audience, but surely more so by responses coming from appreciative listeners than from the general public.

Expression of feeling, refined articulation and phrasing with rhythmic intensity, dynamic control, intonation, and other aspects of musical beauty are the critical areas of "musical advancement," as I see it. "Tone" seems to come from all of these in the context of a song and with the accompaniment of a band. Good equipment fosters the growth of talent and tone also. However, just as surely as defective equipment will limit one's tone, defective mental processes can mar the growth of talent. The hunger for fame may overwhelm the music. One might play the old crowd-pleasers to earn a living, while fearing to write new and creative material. That panders to the audience, and leaves the musician something like a hollow stump.

When all of these factors or aspects of good musicianship that are listed above are balanced in combination, and when the composer's intent is expressed, added virtuosity is the frosting on the cake.

I hope to hear some responses and learn more about this subject. I also hope to hear how individuals have advanced as pedal steelers. What have been some of your milestones? Being able to hear and visualize what another is playig? Improvising your first good solo? Making enough money for the first time to continue as a "professional?" Playing for money the first time? Hearing praise from your teacher or a notable expert?

Very respectfully,
John

Tamara James · Posted 19 May 2009 8:35 am

Is popularity A Necessary Part Of Advancing Musically?

yes.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

When all of the riddles connecting perspicacious personages with an abundance of musical prowess have been thoroughly considered, traces of very sobering effects may become intermingled with the imbalances of everlasting glory. Musical harmonies and flower gardens share in the sobering effects of seasonal changes. Each spring will bring forth new flowers. The harmonies of accepted perfectionists cannot recover as flowers do by returning in a burst of color in the warmth of every spring. The rewards of great harmonies, can be very sobering.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · From: Ayrshire, Scotland

I smell keech, toleys, jobbies and the like!

Phwaaarch.
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Tom Quinn · Posted 19 May 2009 2:55 pm

I dunno... some of the best harmonies I ever played, both the other guitar player and I were drunk as a skunk...
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I need an Emmons!

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Hi Bill, Let's look at it another way... Can a mean musician suffer musically from not being nice? I think so!

Of course we don't need to demonize a mean musician; they are already possessed by a demon, and furthermore, they yearn for the Oriental despotisms of pre-Hellenic times, the neolithic culture that preceded the rise of self-consciousness and steel guitars.

A mean musician abhors the current era, in which people are free to change the minds of those who take us all back to the Stone Age. If a mean musician isn't ungrateful, I don't know who is. To add another dimension to this argument, let me mention that (usually) a mean musician believes that divine ichor flows through his veins.

It's asinine but it's not that asinine. It's really amazing, isn't it? We can put people on the Moon and send robot explorers to Mars, but when the facts don't fit, a mean musician sometimes tries to bully the other musicians anyway.

I therefore maintain, that idiots that chew out the other musicians on the stage are never given the guidance needed (from the other musicians), so they suffer in the long run. Besides that, in many cases their feet stink and they don't love Jesus.

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

It is quite obvious that guidance and instructions are valuable sources of learning to play the steel guitar. The receptive qualities of those in the process of learning, must be sharpened by every session. There is always something new to be learned. Reasonable thinking quickens the process of instruction. Time has shown an increase in the walk to steel guitar artistry in this new century. Smile

Jerry L Miller · From: Sublette, Kansas, USA

????????

Tom Quinn · Posted 19 May 2009 7:31 pm

Translation from Babblefish:

Beer, butts and practice = a steady gig behind a D-10...
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I need an Emmons!

Danny Bates · From: Fresno, CA. USA

Bill said: Musical harmonies and flower gardens share in the sobering effects of seasonal changes. Each spring will bring forth new flowers. The harmonies of accepted perfectionists cannot recover as flowers do by returning in a burst of color in the warmth of every spring.

I agree with this...
"As long as the roots are not severed, all is well and all will be well in the garden"

Translation from YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYLy1Yj_P_Q

Stephen Silver · From: Asheville, NC

Bill Hankey · From: Pittsfield, MA, USA

Danny Bates,

Musical clout is in order to still the wagging tongues of forum abusers. I am much to fond of laughter to ever allow disruptive activity to move in by injecting slurs and exaggerated claims. Thousands of children throughout America have been victimized during grade schoolings by these known abusers. As can be seen, they never yield to respected constituted authorities. They've been told by b0b to nip it in the bud. Laughter is fun, provided the intent is to allow a broad range of humor. Funny is funny, and vicious is vicious. It has been noted that musical clout has precedence over popularity.
This is a problem area for many who possess diversified opinions about musical presentations. Trying to find reasons for anything unusual, could be too time consuming to consider.

Tom Quinn · Posted 20 May 2009 5:22 am

"I am much to fond of laughter ..."

Bill it is too not to and you get nasty when someone doesn't parrot your hyperbole...

This country -- the home of the pedal steel guitar -- was based on freedom of thought and freedom of speech. Our good provider b0b-san has indeed cautioned some, but I see absolutely nothing above to warrant your catterwauling. If you don't like the answers, then why evoke them with your posts? You infer others are bullies because they have opinions you don't like? You might want to check the mirror on that one.

Gotta go to work while I still have a job...
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I need an Emmons!

Ellis Miller · From: Cortez, Colorado, USA

Popularity or some derivative thereof put me on stage with a guitar in my hands five or six nights a week for all those many years. Playing/performing was certainly an aspect of my development as a musician.
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Ellis Miller
Don't believe everything you think.
http://www.ellismillermusic.com

Theresa Galbraith · From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA

Yep!

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