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Topic: Basic blocking question |
Gwyneth Morgan
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 5:19 pm |
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I'd originally posted this in the Steel on the Web section, as a followup to Joseph Barcus' video post [http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=157663], but I realized that this really belongs here.
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I have a followup question about blocking.
If I align my palm's lifeline with the string I mean to pluck, I either have to curl my fingers nearly closed to reach that string, or stretch them way out to the left, so that my palm can actually turn over far enough to do the blocking.
What I wind up doing is keeping my non-picking fingers - especially my pinky - laid out so that the entire edge of my hand works at blocking.
Is this something I'm just not getting, or is it an issue with longer fingers? |
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Wayne D. Clark
From:
Montello Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 6:35 pm
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Well Ms Morgan. Your question put me to thinking,{it's been awhile} Just what do I do when I block with my right hand. You will get to the point where you don't think about it. It just happens.
Here is how I right hand block, and I learned this 60 + years ago. When I'm picking by hand is like in a reversed "C" position. there are times I find my pincky finger tucked around the first string, Probably comes from playing Banjo. Back to blocking. With my fingers in such a position Picking is no problem. This allows me to role my wrist like to the right to block with the edge of my palm. I with I could show you but I think you get the idea. there will be others on her giving advice. but that is the way I learned and it works for me.
Good Luck on the PSG DO NOT GIVE UP ON IT. THE EFFORT IS WELL WORTH THE REWARD.
Desert Rose S10 3/5
Goodrich Pedal
PEAVEY 110 [IT DOESN'T PULL A MUSSEL TO LIFT IT] |
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Jerry Cramer
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Posted 11 May 2009 7:51 pm
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I sent you a mail Gwyneth.
Regards,
Jerry |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 11 May 2009 10:38 pm
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There are some great teachers in and very close to Md. Find Buddy Charleton down at Billy Cooper's shop in Va or Mike Auldridge in Silver Springs. Those are 2 that I have worked with. There are others also. Nothing better than first hand information straight from one of the greats.
_________________
Bob |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 May 2009 3:00 am
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I'm against using "bodily references" for technique. The old "line up your belly button with the 14th fret" and "put this crease in your hand here" are clumsy approximations, to say the least, since everyone's physiology is different.
Get a few one-on-one lessons. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 12 May 2009 6:00 am
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Well, most people have their belly-buttons not very far away from the centerline of their bodies...  |
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A. J. Schobert
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio,
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Posted 12 May 2009 6:35 am
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Gwenyth, some guys play with their knuckle raised some play with a "claw" I believe what you are talking about is a raised knuckle, after you line your hand up and you curl your hand this would be the end result.
It is tough to get use to especially if you have bad habbitts, I do.
The raised knuckle I believe, is good to have when it comes to clean speed picking.
I like the pick blocking method myself. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 May 2009 8:01 am
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| Per Berner wrote: |
| Well, most people have their belly-buttons not very far away from the centerline of their bodies... |
That's true. But the thread is about steel playing - not anatomy.  |
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Ron !
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Posted 12 May 2009 8:12 am
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Gwyneth,
put your hand vertical on the pickup and then try to grab a virtual ball.
When you do this your fingers should be pointing towards the Keyhead.
Now you can block with your pink straight or curled under.
It's very simple.The blocking technique however is a different story.
Ron |
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Bent Romnes
From:
London,Ontario, Canada
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Posted 12 May 2009 8:46 am
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Hi Gwyneth,
It is correct what Ron says....like grabbing a virtual ball.
The Blocking. Jeff Newman's teaching has always advised to line up the crease in your hand with the string you are about to pick. Of course you can't check the crease all the time, but what Jeff meant was that eventually it would become automatic, and also this way your hand would be moving across the strings as well. That way, your finger won't be stretching for a string.
When you block, try and think of it as "block/pick"
not "pick/block. In other words, start with your hand resting on the string. As you go to pick, your finger comes down as your hand clears the string.
This is all a very conscious effort to start with. Eventually it becomes automatic. I am no good at it but I have it in my head form the way Jeff taught us and I know it works.
I strongly recommend that you buy Jeff's "Right Hand Alpha" course.
_________________
BenRom Pedal Steel Guitars
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212050572323614/ |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 12 May 2009 9:18 am
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Gwyneth, simply take your right hand, from where you're sitting and rest the fleshy portion of your hand on the strings. You'll probably end up being around a 40 to 45 degree angle to the strings. (Whatever, feels comfortable to You!)
Each time you pick a string, allow your hand to come up off the string/s, and then fall back down on them, (unless you want them to sustain). That's it!
It gets to be second nature to you after a few weeks time. The position, depends on however it feels good to you. Only you, know the answer to that. And no, long fingers don't give anymore of a problem than what having short fingers would. I've seen and heard, both play thier butts off. 
It simply takes time. So do it YOUR way, and you'll be good to go..... Don |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 May 2009 9:32 am
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| Ron Steenwijk wrote: |
...put your hand vertical on the pickup and then try to grab a virtual ball.
When you do this your fingers should be pointing towards the Keyhead.
Ron |
Only slightly towards the keyhead!
You picking fingers will usually approximate an angle of somewhere between 45 to 90 degrees across the strings. If you play with your right arm closer to your body, the angle will be closer to 90 degrees. If you play with your right arm slightly out from your body, the angle will be closer to 45 degrees. |
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Ron !
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Posted 12 May 2009 4:20 pm
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You're right Donny.
I tried to explain it as simple as I could.
Actually they should be pointing at your pedals when you pick.
Ron |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 12 May 2009 5:19 pm
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Look at this guy's "peaked" knuckle,,,and Loooong fingers. I have a life-long habit of always looking at Buddy Emmons right hand,,,always peaked,,,sometimes almost straight up and down. Like the other guys said,,,like holding a small ball. Just wad it up, lay it on the strings,,,raise it just enough to clear when you pick,,,,relax,,,keep after it,,it's worth it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IrSq1rOoL4
Also Buddy keeps his elbow in close to his body,,which Jeff VERY strongly advocates. (There are some avatars on here that look like the guy is going to fly away!) There is no way to execute a proper attack on the strings from that position. |
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Gwyneth Morgan
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 5:41 pm
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Thank you all very, very much. This has been a great collection of responses, and the back and forth between you all has helped a lot, in giving me ideas how to approach this.
I will absolutely be looking for local instruction, and I thank you for all your words of support.
Back to practicing!
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 5:45 pm
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Gwyneth, I teach the Jeff Newman style of palm blocking, with my own personal variations thrown in, always with the statement: I've seen all kinds of right hand positions and blocking work, even though they shouldn't; if you find a way that works for you, use it; when it stops working, find a better way.
I've personally been through several methods of palm blocking, all without input from a teacher, but finally learned the hard way that Newman's method was on the money, and could later be interchangeably used with pick blocking with no problem whatsoever. Other ways of palm blocking I'd used were more problematic and created problems in other areas of technique and speed.
So the Newman method is THE best way in general, imho.
In my lessons and classes, students must purchase Jeff's DVD course, "The Right Hand Alpha" (I'm a dealer for Fran, btw, no pirating here!). A bit of time spent with that course pays off HUGE dividends, and quickly.
One other very helpful tip: for students who really struggle, I actually give them the "Professor Twang Correct Right Hand Posture Strengthening Sphere"---otherwise known as a cat ball. 
It's small, I keep several sizes around for varying hand sizes, but the imaginary ball others here referenced? This is the ACTUAL ball that forces your hand into EXACTLY the right shape, effortlessly and miraculously!!
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Ron !
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 8:51 pm
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| I never took lessons from Buddy Charleton, but a friend who did passed on something valuable Charleton told him to me: To develop a good right hand position, hold a ping-pong ball while practicing! For me, this meant having the third and fourth fingers curled under, not having one or both extended. I believe for others extending the pinky works better. Either way, it makes your hand tilt so that the right side of it rests on the strings as the blocking surface, to be lifted when you pick. (I still have that same ping-pong ball 25 years later, though I only occasionally take it out for nostalgia and to check if I'm slipping!) But I recently saw a clip of JayDee Maness on YouTube doing some very fast and dexterous picking with his hand quite flat and virtually parallel with the plane of the strings. Everyone has to find what works best for their own anatomy. |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Robin Archer
From:
Califon, , USA
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Posted 13 May 2009 4:04 am More Blocking
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Having a lot of trouble myself...just can't seem to get my right hand to behave as suggested and I always end up with my palm off the strings altogether.
Seems to me though many of the systems will work it's just a matter of training you hand to behave.
->R |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 13 May 2009 6:48 am Re: More Blocking
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| Robin Archer wrote: |
Having a lot of trouble myself...just can't seem to get my right hand to behave as suggested and I always end up with my palm off the strings altogether.
Seems to me though many of the systems will work it's just a matter of training you hand to behave.
->R |
What works for me is to keep my arm against my side and RELAX. If your elbo keeps sneaking out on you, hold a magazine to your side--if you drop the mag your arm is tring to cheat you. When you quit dropping the magazine with out "thinking about it", your on your way.
Get lazy. Arm by your side, karate chop the edge of your hand in front of your pickup--rest the edge of your hand ON the strings, then allow your fingers to "reach for your strings" to pick them. Yes roll your hand just enough toward the keyhead to reach your picks to the strings. All you need to do is raise your hand just enough to let the string you picked vibrate. Relax and get lazy. You need just enough clearance between your hand edge(palm) to slip a piece of paper between your hand and the string you just picked. The rest of the stings do not matter--keep your hand relaxed and resting on them. IT'S OK TO TOUCH THE STRINGS!! I can palm block OR pick block, or combine both as I need to with this position. You should learn both ways.
A cool excersise is to pick string 5 and 3, alternate, and slightly mute 5. Say you are on fret 3 open(key of G), pick 5 then 3, then with A&B pedals down(C), pick 5 then 3, move up to fret 4(C#) and pick 5 then 3, then go to fret 5(D) and pick 5 then 3. This is 4 moves, and slightly muting string five, you get a chicken picking sound for a neat little honky tonk kick-off and turn around. It also will teach you to loosen up your right hand. Have fun!
Again, don't just limit yourself to palm blocking OR pick blocking--learn them both. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 13 May 2009 7:12 am
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Robin, That's the problem. It may be called Palm Blocking, but I've never thought or felt of it as being Palm Blocking at all.
You don't want your palm on the strings. You want the portion, "Do This!": Lay your right hand flat out on a table. "Palm Down" Now with your fingers all together, look down at your Pinky Finger. Now look at the right side (edge) of that hand, and from the last knuckle on up, to just before your rist. That is the ONLY portion, you want resting on the strings. And to get that portion doing that, do this.
Now go lay that same hand up near the pickup, palm down, as it was laying on the table. Now, simply roll your hand to the right, which will lift the rest of your fingers up and off of the strings.
For now, curl your Pointer finger, as well as your middle finger, slightly, so they are into a comfortable picking position.
To get the idea, try keeping your Thumb, First finger, and middle finger all touching one another, as if you were holding onto a tiny piece of something. That will more of less, give you the position of those first two fingers. It will also show you that you'll probably need to allow your Fourth finger to be tucked under and out of the way. Then, the Pinky finger, can either be held out, or tucked under. I prefer mine (most of the time) to be out. It doesn't matter which way, as long as you use that (Fleshy Side Of Your Right Hand) portion, that's left down on the strings, to block with.
I always have some portion of the right side of my hand, on some of the strings. Depending on which strings I'm picking at the time. So it's Not Really, always, picking up your entire hand, in order to pick and then block.
Hope that helps someone, others may disagree.
Note: That's what's so great about this forum. We can all agree to disagree every now and then, and still come away friends.......... Don |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 13 May 2009 7:25 am
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Well said brother Don, just a different approach, but get ya there just the same.
Because everyone is of a different anatomy, as mentioned earlier, take these tips and work out what works best for you, and you will work out the style and position that becomes YOUR style. If you look at the tips in these threads, they will ALSO help you to avoid some bad habits. Bad habits will limit your ability.
Whatever you do, have fun. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 13 May 2009 7:37 am
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James, I was writing mine as you must have been doing the same. Because after I posted, is when I seen yours. Had I seen yours first, I'd not have posted mine.
Yours was right on! |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 13 May 2009 7:43 am
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Well it's all good, Don, because some may relate to your post quicker than mine, or mine quicker than yours. So it is all good.
Sara Jory is one who likes to tuck her ring finger under, so those that like that idea should go to youtube and check out her style. She is awesome.
Last edited by James Morehead on 13 May 2009 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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