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Topic: diminished & augmented chords on dobro |
Carroll Hale
From:
EastTexas, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 9:13 am |
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does any of you pros out there have suggestions or places I can go and see how to play diminished and augmented chords on standard GBDGBD dobro tuning...
or is there a special tuning that allows me to do that....I hate to change tunings.....I have tried to play "partial" chords....2 or 3 strings..slants to achieve this....NOT much luck....have not been playing reso that long....any help appreciated..
ch |
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Charley Wilder
From:
Dover, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 9:58 am
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Carroll,
Fred Sokolow's Fretboard Roadmaps for the Dobro has a quick little section on them. It's where I learned them. All of them he shows are done on two strings. For instance; d+ can be done on the second and third strings (B+G) on the 3rd,7th and 11th frets, etc. Augmented chords repeat every four frets. Diminished repeat every three. The D- chord can be done on the first and second strings (D&B) or the second and fourth strings at the 3rd,6th, and 9th frets, etc. Why you can't use the first, second and fourth strings I don't know! Fred doesn't tell us. lol |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 11 May 2009 10:28 am
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You cannot do a full minor, diminished or augmented chord with a straight bar, no open strings, in open G. It's not possible.
The defining interval of a diminished chord is the flat 5 (G-Db) whereas for the augmented chord it's the sharp 5 (G-D#). You need to slant or string pull if you want that interval.
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Billy Gilbert
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 10:36 am A & D chords on dobro
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With a round nosed bar, you can use the nose to fret 1 and 2 on the same fret and fret string 3 one fret higher (toward the bridge) for augmented chords. Fret 2 and 3 on the same fret and move down towards the nut one fret on string 1 for diminished. Not perfect but close.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 10:54 am
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Here's how I look at it:
The diminished chord is a stack of minor third intervals. The straight bar minor thirds are on the B and D strings. So, with your straight bar, you have a part of a diminished chord whenever you play two or more notes without using the G strings. If you slide that partial chord up or down 3 frets, you have another part of the diminished chord.
Similarly,
The augmented chord is a stack of major third intervals. The straight bar major thirds are on the G and B strings. So, with your straight bar, you have a part of an augmented chord whenever you play two or more notes without using the D strings. If you slide that partial chord up or down 4 frets, you have another part of the augmented chord.
Purists will say that two notes are not a chord, and they are right. But in most cases, what you want is a harmony that works within the chord progression that the band is playing. Those harmonies can be found without slants if you simply avoid the G strings on diminished chords and avoid the D strings on augmented chords.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 11 May 2009 11:04 am
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+1 what b0b said!
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 11:12 am
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| Twayn Williams wrote: |
| You cannot do a full minor, diminished or augmented chord with a straight bar, no open strings, in open G. It's not possible. |
That's true, absolutely.
| Quote: |
| The defining interval of a diminished chord is the flat 5 (G-Db) whereas for the augmented chord it's the sharp 5 (G-D#). You need to slant or string pull if you want that interval. |
Only half true. The sharp 5 interval that "defines" the augmented chord is available on strings 5 and 3 (low B and middle G) at any fret. |
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Twayn Williams
From:
Portland, OR
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Posted 11 May 2009 12:13 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| The sharp 5 interval that "defines" the augmented chord is available on strings 5 and 3 (low B and middle G) at any fret. |
I stand corrected. I don't usually think of a minor 6th as an augmented 5th, but it is!
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Primitive Utility Steel |
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Carroll Hale
From:
EastTexas, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 12:30 pm
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thanks for the comments..
dont use a "round nose bar"..
guess I need to get one to do some of this..
good suggestions..
as always...SGF comes thru for us beginners..
beginners at 62..at least a dobro beginner..
ch |
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Charley Wilder
From:
Dover, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 11 May 2009 2:54 pm
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Thanks Bob. Now I understand a bit more about why the different strings are used. Fred shows several of those two note partials, 9ths, etc. I just do them. I don't know why. Just laziness I guess.  |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 5:37 am
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| How about pulling the strings behind the bar? That's what I do. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 12 May 2009 7:48 am
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I wish I could say I were a better "string puller" myself, but I don't spend much time practicing the art, and John could surely tell you that is indeed an art to do it well.
In addition to the Sokolow book, you should get a copy of the Stacy Phillips book below.
Stacy Phillips is one of the masters of string pulling, and I recommend his Dobro Case Chord Book which can be found a number of places on-line easy enough by Googling. It sells for about six bucks these days.
It doesn't list a tremendous amount of diminished and augmented chords, but it gives you "recipes" for some of them which will open up more doors for you as you work up and down the neck.
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Mark |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 7:59 am
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Lets see if I have this straight:
For a diminished chord form, pull the 3rd string up a half tone
For an augmented chord form, pull the 1st string up a half tone.
same applies for the lower three strings.
I use them quite a bit, but never really think about it. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 12 May 2009 8:00 am Greg Booth
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| For some tasty string pulls (to get aug and dim chords), check out the tunes by Greg Booth over at reso-nation. He did a super version of Danny Boy on the dobro, with string pulls and all. Greg is a very impressive player from way up north (AK). |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 8:04 am
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| Tom, about 20 years ago, I wanted to play Danny Boy on my Bro. That's how I stumbled into string pulling. I'm gonna have to check out what these other guys are doing. Add to my stuff. Thanks for the tip on that resonation site! |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 8:27 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
Lets see if I have this straight:
For a diminished chord form, pull the 3rd string up a half tone
For an augmented chord form, pull the 1st string up a half tone.
same applies for the lower three strings.
I use them quite a bit, but never really think about it. |
Yes, that is exactly right. |
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Carroll Hale
From:
EastTexas, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 11:47 am
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| John Billings wrote: |
| How about pulling the strings behind the bar? That's what I do. |
please give me an example of what "pulling the strings" and how to do that....since I am relatively new....I have lots to learn.....any help appreciated...thanks,
ch |
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John Billings
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 12 May 2009 12:02 pm
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| I use my middle or ring finger. Drop it down onto a string, and pull it sideways to raise the pitch, using your fingertip. You'll be pulling the string towards your palm. Don't push the string down, or it will lose contact with your bar. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 12 May 2009 12:24 pm
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A video demonstration of Forumite Rick Alexander demonstrating a string pull on a Stringmaster (I would use the word "his" Stringmaster, but that would indicate he only has one - there's no telling how many he owns - could be a whole fleet!  ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dysKj4kVg8
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Mark |
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Harry Dietrich
From:
Robesonia, Pennsylvania, USA, R.I.P.
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Chris Drew
From:
Bristol, UK
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Posted 13 May 2009 4:55 am
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| Mark Eaton wrote: |
| there's no telling how many he owns - could be a whole fleet! ): |
So the collective noun for Stringmasters is "fleet"... nice!
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www.hollowneck.com |
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Don McGregor
From:
Memphis, Tennessee
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Posted 13 May 2009 5:53 am
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| and if you want to see and hear more impressive and beautiful examples of string stranglin' in action, check out pretty much any of the postings on youtube of one of my heroes, Billy Robinson. Sometimes it looks like he's squeezing a lemon, but, Man! It's sweeet! |
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Steve Ahola
From:
Concord, California
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Posted 10 May 2010 11:56 am
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| One gentleman many many months ago wrote: |
| In reply to a wise man who wrote: |
| How about pulling the strings behind the bar? That's what I do. |
please give me an example of what "pulling the strings" and how to do that....since I am relatively new....I have lots to learn.....any help appreciated...thanks,
ch |
A lap steel player showed me string pulling back in 1978; his main influence was David Lindley so I always figured that he was the one who popularized the technique. Please correct me if I am wrong!
As for innovative techniques for slide guitar, I believe it was Sonny Landreth who came up with the idea of fretting *behind* the slide to get notes not available in the normal straight slide position, both for more complex chords as well as incredible scalar riffs. Once again please correct me if I am wrong on that! (These are just my own observations listening to recordings.)
Thanks- this is a great thread even if it is kinda dead. (Zombie threads?)
Steve Ahola
P.S. Has anybody here tried pushing down on the strings behind the bar to deaden specific notes? I don't think that you could actually fret behind the bar because the action would be too high...
_________________
www.blueguitar.org
Recordings on electric guitar:
http://www.box.net/blue-diamonds
http://www.box.net/the-culprits |
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Greg Booth
From:
Anchorage, AK, USA
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Mark Lavelle
From:
San Mateo, CA
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Posted 14 Jun 2010 9:05 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| [...] Purists will say that two notes are not a chord, and they are right. But in most cases, what you want is a harmony that works within the chord progression that the band is playing. |
As a theoretician (I actually survived 4 semesters of college music theory), I have to say that's a really essential point about harmony (with or without a band).
People who share a common musical culture will hear notes that aren't even there. You just have to give them a sketch and their brains will fill in the chord. How many (and which) notes are sufficient depends on the context, but it's amazing how often two notes is enough.
-- Mark
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http://www.harmonicappliances.com/ |
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