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Topic: How Long Have You Wished For A Better Tone? |
Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 7:43 am |
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I don't think that I would be exaggerating if I said for much to long a period of time. It's truly doubtful that the pinnacle of efficacy has been reached by the use of solid state substitutions. I declare a lifelong longing for better sound transformation.  |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 4 May 2009 10:13 am
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| Get a tube amp. |
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Ray Montee
From:
Portland, Oregon (deceased)
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Posted 4 May 2009 10:31 am Better TONE, you say?
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I've chased that dream for 'pefect TONE' for some 66 years. Ultimately, finding the Rickenbacher guitars and mating them up with a 1965 Epiphone Electar tube amp with a 10 inch speaker.......was the first step.
I improved some on that by mating the g'tars with several different 8-10 inch Rola speakers in tube amps and WOW! I had THAT TONE! Finally, I've found a Volu-Tone amp like the one JERRY BYRD placed in the Country Music Hall of Fame and I NOW have THAT TONE.
I'm no Jerry Byrd, but the tone is there. |
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Eric Philippsen
From:
Central Florida USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 11:14 am
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| Last Friday I was doing studio demos for a band. I took the REV setup, an Emmons p/p D10, and went direct out of the Rev. I'll take the tone I dialed up that night all day, anyday. Right in the niche. Engineer said, "Well, nothin's gotta be done with the steel." |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 4 May 2009 11:51 am
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I sold a Valco Chicago 51 tube amp in 2006 for $300. Wish I had it back. Montee,it had that tone your talking about.
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 4 May 2009 12:19 pm
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| learn to play well and caress your instrument appropriately and there is no more longing necessary! |
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Darrell Criswell
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 12:45 pm Replicas
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| Can't you buy amps that are replias of these old amps with similar electronics and speakers? |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 1:14 pm
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Ever since I learned how to play, I've been able to get a tone that I like on any steel guitar. I really haven't "wished for a better tone" in a long, long time.
Maybe I should. 
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 4 May 2009 1:19 pm Re: Replicas
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| Darrell Criswell wrote: |
| Can't you buy amps that are replias of these old amps with similar electronics and speakers? |
"Similar" is the keyword, here. The old oiled-paper and foil caps aren't made, neither are good USA tubes (though you can still find some old ones that are good). Lastly, those old speakers, with the thin paper cones and plug A-V magnets are getting scarce. You can get close, but the exact sonic match is only there if you have the original everything.
As far as tone goes for me, I think I've mastered that part of the equation. I can get a good tone out of just about anything! Now all I have to do is learn to play better!  |
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Darrell Criswell
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 1:29 pm Similar sound
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Is the sound really any different, or is it just the nostalagia for the older days. Not to belittle the warm feelings about the older equipment.
I know people have done "blinded" tests with stradavarius violins over modern ones. People like the Strads but not better than modern instruments. And people can't pick the sound of a Strad. It is still absolutely remarkable that they could make such good violins over 500 years ago (by the way the Italians also did surgical procedures back then that weren't rediscovered in our culture until the 1950's, unbelievable). |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 3:21 pm
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| Sadly, manufacturers are producing gadgets by the thousands. Gadgets that do produce different effects. The novelty of effects are short-lived, and the end result is disappointment. The most remarkable changes can be found by finding an amp that features dramatic changes in the reverb, treble, and bass controls. Cheesy volume pots contribute very little, and they're becoming more widely used in replacement parts, where repairers of defective equipment thrive by installing economy parts. To add to the distasteful experience, the usual practice is to eventually hear that the amp has been repaired, after several inquiries. Don't expect the amp to deliver a better tone, unless original parts are used in the repair work. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 3:55 pm
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I don't know how people can think that an old amplifier from the forties and fifties sounds better.
I know, there is no accounting for taste! However, the new, modern amplifiers sound much better, and have better controls than the old ones in my opinion. They are quieter, smoother, and more trouble free. There is less mid-range growl or honk, and should you desire that honk, most new steel amplifiers will let you dial it in.
I am as prone to nostalgia as anyone, but I can hear the difference, and I prefer the new amplifiers.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Brendan Mitchell
From:
Melbourne Australia
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Posted 4 May 2009 4:12 pm
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| I am usually more than happy with my tone at home but on a gig I'd say I only find it 50% of the time at most . There seems to be so many variables it's just a struggle to find that sweet spot in a live situation yet at home I can change settings around willy nilly and still think it sounds great . |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 4 May 2009 4:34 pm
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Bill said=
| Quote: |
| I don't know how people can think that an old amplifier from the forties and fifties sounds better |
I agree with Bill,
I never understood people  saying those kinda things like this and that sounded better back then, don't you think if it sounded it better!... they wouldn't of changed it.
_________________
Comeau SD10 4x5, Comeau S10 3x5, Peavey Session 500,Fender Telecaster,Fender Stratocaster, Fender Precision,1978 Ovation Viper electric. Alvarez 4 strings Violin electric.
Click the links to listen to my Comeau's Pedal Steel Guitars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIYiaomZx3Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2GhZTN_yXI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvDTw2zNriI |
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Joe Smith
From:
Charlotte, NC, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 6:17 pm
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| The best sound I get is when I play my Carter through my Standel 80L15 or my two Standel 25L15s. Totally awesome. |
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Austin Tripp
From:
Westminster SC
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Posted 4 May 2009 6:34 pm
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I've realized that tone does not matter when it comes to the steel guitar, as long as you can play and know what your doing, then the tone and sound will come naturally.
_________________
"Hotrod"
Steel guitarist for Cody Jinks
Member CMA |
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Pat Comeau
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 4 May 2009 8:19 pm
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What b0b said. Tone has been something that has come pretty naturally to me - I'm always dinking with it and making minor tweaks for particular purposes, but overall I seem to be able to wring a decent tone out of anything that's not a tonal train wreck (and I HVE had some of those with various instruments...A Gibson EB-0 bass, a Gibson L6-S, a Fender/Shobud S-10 steel and an MSA Classic all fall into the "it couldn't be done" category.
| Quote: |
| I've realized that tone does not matter when it comes to the steel guitar, as long as you can play and know what your doing, then the tone and sound will come naturally. |
I have to respectfully disagree, and very strongly. I know many players of all types of instruments that feel that way - they have all the chops in the world and great technical ability, but not matter what they play through their tone sucks fetid swamp water - and they usually don't KNOW it.
I play with one 6-stringer who can play about 1000 songs from memory and knows every hook ever written, and when playing rhythm sounds fine - but the minute he plays a solo...ANY solo...in ANY style...he punches in some of the most Godawful distortion I've ever heard (and I use distortion quite often - when it has its place). He literally cannot play a lead break without it. And he *thinks* it sounds great...no in a bragging sense, but he just does not get that his tone is horrendous (not so much that he uses distortion...but it's *crappy* sounding distortion, like ripping bedsheets inside an empty steel water tank.). No matter what any of us say, he doesn't get it - he doesn't really argue, but says he'll do something else...and still does the SAME thing.
I've also taught players that had great technical skills, but some how their tone was awful. One player would use a guitar/amp and sound great, then the other would use the same setup and sound abysmal - they'll make changes in amp settings, pickup use, attack, picking position - and roll it all together into tonal backwash.
Maybe Austin meant also incorporating all these intangibles into "knowing what you are doing" - but I got the impression it was meant along the lines of "if you have the skills and technical knowhow your tone will be good", and I don't think that's true at all (I've also hear tremendous players use some horrid equipment and cripple themselves right out of the chute).
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Bill Hankey
From:
Pittsfield, MA, USA
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Posted 5 May 2009 1:11 am
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| Audience responses to the tone of a steel guitar are quite reliable, and help to improve tone management, by relying on a large group of toe tapping revellers. Taking note of tones that precipitate a filing out of the building prematurely, by partying clientele, would warrant an effort to consider how their judgment of tones may relate to personal effects. It has been noted that when people are having fun, everyone benefits by a whole variety of tones that register as pleasing to the ears. |
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 5 May 2009 5:00 am
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| I quit searching. I have sat at other peoples rigs and always sound just like me. They got a good sound but I just sound like me. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 5 May 2009 5:27 am
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| I've never searched. I had an Emmons D-10 PP and now a Franklin. I get many complements on my tone. |
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Roual Ranes
From:
Atlanta, Texas, USA
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Posted 5 May 2009 5:58 am
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| There have been a few times when I got "that" sound on stage. When you get "that" sound it is as if you had surround sound. I does not sound like one amp and the volumn is perfect. You can hear everything going on on stage as if you were listning to a recording. I have never been able to get "that" sound at home. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 5 May 2009 6:19 am
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| Quote: |
| Audience responses to the tone of a steel guitar are quite reliable, and help to improve tone management, by relying on a large group of toe tapping revellers. |
On the contrary, Bill. If you think the audience, (especially toe tapping revelers,) can provide you with a "reliable" assessment of your tone, then you are in big trouble, my friend.... |
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Mitch Adelman
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 5 May 2009 6:53 am
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Obviously lots of people are searching!
http://www.tonequest.com
The problem is most people in the audience can't tell the difference from where they are sitting!But I still like to make believe they can or care...
All a distraction from more practice. Tone "improvement" is a hobby onto itself. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 5 May 2009 7:47 am Re: Similar sound
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| Darrell Criswell wrote: |
Is the sound really any different, or is it just the nostalagia for the older days. Not to belittle the warm feelings about the older equipment.
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Yes, I think it's different, but I also think the ones who can really hear the difference are probably one in one-thousand. Yes, it matters to the player, whether for real...or because it sounds good to say it. But I still think that if you gave ten violin players a Stradivarius, and only one was a "master" player, you'd be hard pressed to tell the other nine were playing a Stradivarius. In other words, I think you have to have a sufficiently talented player to extract the best from an exceptional instrument. Most all of the players I've heard with a "bad tone" or bad sound could be attributed to the player in one way or another, IMHO. Either the technique was bad, they had a bad amp, or they didn't know the ins and outs of adjusting everything.
Unlike Jim Sliff, I've never heard a bad-sounding guitar. But, I have heard more than my share of players with a bad sound.  |
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