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Topic: Stiff Turning Nylon Tuners/ All Pull |
Ron Brennan
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ
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Posted 29 Apr 2009 7:51 am |
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Hi Folks,
I have an "83" Emmons D10, 8 & 5, All Pull. Great Steel, however, some of the nylon tuners are stiff to turn, others turn quite easlily as by design.
Question: Should the stiff nylon tuner tips making contact against the vertical upper's, lower's holes, below the changer be lightly oil'd, replaced, etc??? 
Any tips or suggestions from you rascals would be greatly appreciated.   TX
Rgds,
Ron
_________________
JCFSGC member 2005 "Be of Good Cheer"
"55" Fender Stringmaster D8,
"83" Emmons LeGrande 77L SKH D10 8 & 5,
"67" All Original Telecaster & Original Owner
"86" Peavey Factory Modified NV 400,
"60"Fender Concert Amp 4-10"s, RV-3, Upgraded chip set GE-7 EQ, CH1 Chorus, DS-1, Hilton, BJS Bar. |
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Sonny Priddy
From:
Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 29 Apr 2009 8:15 am tuners
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| I Like Them Stiff That way They Don't Slip SONNY. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Posted 29 Apr 2009 9:04 am
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Ron
Like sonny said stiff is better, If you find that you are needing to tune the pedals then there is a very very good chance you need to change strings so many people get to tuning those nuts in when the string can no longer do the pull and they think the tuners has slipped but again its the string all along. over time people get these turned in to far then it rides against the changer causing it not to come back true.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvuH7H8BajODaL_wy3_HSJQ |
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Ron Brennan
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ
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Posted 29 Apr 2009 10:31 am Stiff Turning Nylon Tuners/ All Pull
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Thank you Sonny and Joseph,
Food for thought!!
And yes, it's been awhile since I change the strings on the E9 neck.... 
Still, I noticed the particular stiff nylon tuners are more associated with the knee levers nylon tuners... 
They are tight...  , if there are any other thoughts about this topic, fire away........TX
Rgds,
Ron |
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Tracy Sheehan
From:
Fort Worth, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2009 11:01 am Checking strings.
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| What always worked for me was,tuning open then putting the bar in the 14th fret.If the string is bad it will note flat.And you won't need a tuner to tell. |
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Joseph Barcus
From:
Volga West Virginia
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Ernest Cawby
From:
Lake City, Florida, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 2 May 2009 6:27 pm hi
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Mine was hard to turn I used the right size drill bit drilled thru it then put it back on and works just fine, important thing is to use the right size bit.
ernie |
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Ronnie Boettcher
From:
Brunswick Ohio, USA
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Posted 3 May 2009 9:32 am
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If you have the nylon nuts screwed on too far, they tend to get stiff. If that is the case, you might have to shorten the rod a wee bit at the crank. If you do that back off the nylon some, then shorten the rod and retune the nylon. I agree with Sonny,they should be somewhat stiff, but too loose is no good. If your nylon nuts do not have a hole all the way through them, you might be bottoming out the rod in the nut. Then you will be stripping it, and eventually break it, or it will become stripped and will not hold the string in tune when pulled.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Martin D28, Ome trilogy 5 string banjo, Ibanez 4-string bass, dobro, fiddle, and a tubal cain. Life Member of AFM local 142 |
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Ron Brennan
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ
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Posted 4 May 2009 6:34 am Stiff Turning Nylon Tuners/ All Pull
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Thank you Steelers for the advice and your time.
And thank you to the Steelers who sent PM's with good suggestions.
While I'm fairly good with mechanical stuff, and although I'm learning, PSG's are a bit different for me.
The truth be told, some of the tuner nuts, while not frozen, almost won't turn at all!!....
This all pull "83" Emmons SKH D10, 8 & 5, is equipped with white nylon tuners, the treaded hole travels completely through end to end....there are white nylon non-thread spacers (makes sense) between the tuner nuts and the fingers (3 hole uppers or 2 hole lowers) under the changer assembly.
I backed off both the tuner nuts and spacers completely, checked the travel on the spring loaded fingers and the rods. No troubles found there.
Placed a drop of 3 & 1 oil to test one of the tuners and that procedure helped a bit. But another problem
cropped up. I put the nylon spacer, then the tuner nut back on loosely. I then tuned the open string to pitch, then depressed the C pedal to raise the 3rd string to proper pitch, but can't. The tuner will not turn enough so the pitch is slightly flat. Moreover, when I release the C pedal, the open tuned string pitch is now sharp! Back and forth..Can’t seem to resolve 
I'm digging a hole and it's getting deeper...$#%^^%$# 
But, I thank you all for your help. I'll try some more when I get time off the day gig....see what happens. May even call Emmons for tuners as someone suggested. I do know enough not to break things......still love this steel.....  ....TX
Rgds,
Ron |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 4 May 2009 2:01 pm
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| The problem sounds to me, as if the string you're trying to tune the 3rd? Using C Pedal? You might want to try using the B pedal. Just a thought. |
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Ron Brennan
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ
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Posted 5 May 2009 2:07 pm
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Don, thank you for your input......
Actually, I mis-spoke or mis-wrote 
One issue is the C pedal, 4th string E.....when I tune it open to E, 440....then press C pedal, I can barely tune it to F#, just a little flat. Release C pedal, the open E is Sharp...
Same problem with the RKL lever......anyway, to make an interesting week, I called Emmons and was fortunate to speak with Mr. Lashley....He was really helpful and great to speak with. Flipped the guitar over and went to work with Mr. Lashley on the phone...being somewhat mechanical, we quickly were able to communicate and found that some rods had been tinkered with over the years and were not set up in the right holes, etc. He is sending me his rod chart and with some momenclature notes he gave me, he'll walk me through seting up a few rods out of place (finger holes, bell crank holes, etc) He had me adjust some set screws, etc for now and I'm back in business for now, and with a plan.... TX
Rgds,
Ron |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 5 May 2009 4:09 pm
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Hi Ron,
I figured you'd made a mistake in your post.
Ron, the Nylons, should turn a little stiff. As has been said, they need to be, in order to not go out of tune on you. The ones that turn easy, should be changed. As well as, the one's that turn really hard, as in, almost non adjustable. They should NOT be that hard, but fairly stiff.
The problem you're experiencing would seem to me as though you didn't have enough end play at the Nylons.
#1. Back off your Nylon Tuners, until you have about 1/16 to 1/8" of end clearance on the pulls.
#2. Tune up Open (No Pedals No Knees engaged)
#3. Now Tune The Pulls that have the most travel.
Note: As in the 3rd and 6th pull up to A. Start with tuning the 3rd string, because it's the smallest diameter, and has to stretch farther to make that trip. So that's the string the Pedal Stop would also be set to.
After you get it (just the 3rd) tuned up to pitch, make sure it returns to pitch as well. Then make sure you still have some end play with the pedals up (in that pull rod, as well as in the 6th string pull rod) if you do, now tune your 6th string, up to A, with that Nylon raise.
After you get it done, make sure you have a little end play in that pull rod also. If you do, continue on with the other strings, the same way.
Always making sure you keep some end play, after tuning each of them all up to pitch.
If the entire thing seems to be going out of tune, I'd back off all of the Nylons, give her a good cleaning and relube, and start from there.
Hope that helps. Don't forget to check the cross shafts also. They need to have end play in them too. Or they can bind up the works.
Pedal Shafts also need lubing from time to time.
If you get stuck in an area, give a shout back.
Don |
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Ron Brennan
From:
Orlando, Florida, USA; Formerly, Edison, NJ
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Posted 6 May 2009 7:40 am
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Hi Don,
Thank you for the excellent tuning/maintenance procedure tips you shared with us.
I will take each one into account and give a try.
I'm also anxious to review and match up the Rod placement chart Mr. Lashely is sending out.
Say, what exit are you on the GSP or TP?......TX
Rgds,
Ron |
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