Pacific northwest steelers, need your valuable input.

Steve Benson · From: Massachusetts, USA

Hi All. Thanks for taking the time to look at this and possibly give me some valuable info/advice. I'm 35, born and raised in Boston MA. My close friend just got back from Portland OR and Loved it. I've toured as far as CA but never been to that part of the country but I keep hearing great things about it. I'll be honest. I'm sick of this area, it's like everyday is everyone's worst day. I'm ready for some place new with some kind of scene where my skills as a musician would be a bit more in demand. I'm seriously considering a move to Portland OR, or another city in the area. So what I looking for is honest feed back.

1. Music, While I can play country I tend to work with singer/songwriters and rock to heavy rock bands. Acoustic and electric mandolins (yes they can really rock) Lap and Pedal. Electric Sitar(it's black for better tone) and Oud(fret-less middle eastern lute) I have some contacts there but wanted to get feedback from steel players as that's my #1 love and passion in life (except perhaps meeting a cool girl)

The scene?

Would I be able to get some part time work? Gigs $75 or above?

2. Economy I know it's bad everywhere I work in moving sales (for a very good moving company) and hope I can land a job. That the part that worries me the most.

3. People, climate, honest ups and downs for a Boston Boy to give it a shot.

what say you SGF? thanks for helping me out here.
_________________
Carter-Magnum S10. Georgeboards S-8 Stealth. Chandler Lap. Peavey Powerslide. Bunch of mandolins. Sitar. Oud. All that and a bag of chips.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

From San Fran on up to Vancouver Canada there are great pockets of music that need well rounded musicians like yourself. That said, the NW music scene is very hipster, and hard to get a foot in the door. As far as Seattle is concerned, I have found most of the shows are low pay. This is due to the saturation of talented musicians that will play cheap and are grateful to have a show at all. I think with your skill set you can probably get in with several bands and make some money though. I usually average about 50-60 a show on steel. Some times more sometimes less. I think maybe 10% of the bands in the bar scene make more than that at all until they start packing the places they play themselves, which is difficult due to the scenster factor.

1.Country rock and classic rock are big right now up here, more so than classic country.

with the sitar and oud you may find San Fran to have more of a draw.

2.economy is real rough in Wa, not sure about PDX

3. Wet and dark, but snow is rare in the cities. temp year round ranges from 90-30. The People are passive aggressive/PC and will tell you what they think you want to hear instead of the truth. That was my hardest transition. You have to learn not to speak your mind and treat everyone like puppies. Crime is very low compared to the East Coast, as people out here would rather get really really stoned than hassle with fighting.

these are based on my experiences and your Millage may vary.
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

If you like SNOW, you've got it about 75 miles to the east.....magestic Mt.Hood. If you like to hike, you've got the multi-state Cascade Mountains trails. If you like sheer beauty, you've got the Columbia Gorge. Our high desert country is only 99 miles east or thereabouts. To the west 75 miles you've got the great Pacific Ocean. Lots of fishing and hunting. No real dangerous crawly things.....

You hear from one or two fellows pulling down $100.00 per gig but I've not seen it. Mostly $40-$50.00. Never found the area to be a strong music center however, there are pockets of good musicians up and down the valley. There are those that will disagree with me, for sure, but I've found trying to make anythign substantial musically, can be a real challenge. GOOD LUCK to you. You'll love Oregon/Washington, Idaho & Montana.

Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

Steve
What ever your reason for relocating , just know that the whole country is troubled with money - jobs - and poli-ticks , but the beauty of the Northwest overshadows most of that .
Ditto what Steve & Ray Said --- PS bring a rain coat

Steve Benson · From: Massachusetts, USA

Bob, Ray and Steve, Thanks so much for writing.
Reasons there are. I think a change of enviroment would be good for me. I work, practice, hang with friends but I want to experience a different part of the country. When I was full time in music my gigs would run from $50-450. I also write and do some producing. I'd like to spend more time outdoors, Boston weather puts a cap on that. Rain I don't mind, but the snow here makes just getting to work a dangerous experience. I'm thinking I'll save everything I can over the winter and head out end of summer with my band mate, he wants a change as well.
I don't expect paradise, but I do want to get the an idea if I make the trip then I may have a little demand for my skills at night. Landing a job is tough all over for sure but I'm not getting younger.
And i I do have a unique non-musical skill set. Perhaps the economy will turn around, I hope. My only real fear Is getting there and not being able to find any work.
Thanks again any other feed back is more then welcome on anything to do with this question.
_________________
Carter-Magnum S10. Georgeboards S-8 Stealth. Chandler Lap. Peavey Powerslide. Bunch of mandolins. Sitar. Oud. All that and a bag of chips.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Wish I had better news.

The economy is totally in the tank. Malls are empty, small manufacturing is ghostly. the ONLY part of the "moving" industry you might find inroads in is the "PODS" thing. COnstuction looks like it's going until you actually look beneath the surface. It's a black hole.

I've been paving this last summer after 30 years of the best references and "construction/dump/heavy equipment hauling" and I can name many of my friends that only have 20 years that havent worked in two years. There is more constructon equipment and or trucks for sale than there are working. The street crowd is getting more desperate, and made of more people that are used to working.

It's gonna be a really rough year. Lots of people's unemployment is or has run out.

Music?

Well there are about a half dozen critter club bands that I know of and play with sometimes. Mostly 50 or less, and you won't find many people that are that "fun" to pay with. After 30 years, I've called in most every marker I had, and I'm VERY lucky to get the gig's I've gotten and still have.. MOstly three weekends a month and all over 50$ with an occaisonal regional "show" that I've got a couple of lined up for the next month over 100$.

The ONE club that is a Truck Stop just went further down and is hiring door money "three band a night" "rockabilly/country rock" bands instead of the ones that actually paid 150 a night. There are a few "alternative" clubs, but magically though the streets are lined with volvos, and subaru outbacks, you find the same "door money" "tips" or bands that "open for" other tip jar door money bands.

It MIGHT not be as expensive out here to live, but you'll be lucky to find a liveable neighborhood. It's a crapshoot.

I've been back there, and would rather live out here in the worst of times, than there in the best.

BEst thing to do is surf around on Craigslist for jobs, housing, and maybe even "music" if you can find any there for a feel of it.

Be careful.

It's only looking worse for the next couple years. The projects I was paving on were "stimulus projects" and we just took it while we could. They're basically done.

No smiley.

Not just now.

EJL

Jim Eaton · From: Santa Susana, Ca

Your point about moving to a new area and getting "work" as a musician reminds me of a night back in the mid 70's.
I use to go every Tue night to a little club in Calabassas called the Sundance Saloon to hear a band that was like a "who's who" of the music bussiness.
Don Everly fronted the band, Albert Lee on Guitar, Harold Hensley and Byron Berline on fiddle, Jackson Brown, John Hartford, Rick Danco, Garth Hudson from the Band, etc. etc. And the steel player was non other than Buddy Emmons!
One Tue night I found out it was going to be Buddys last night with the band as he was going to be moving back to Nashville from Los Angeles.
At the end of the night as Buddy was heading out the door with his gear in hand, I held the screen door open for him and ask him, "who are you going back to Nashville to work with?". He paused for a second and smiled and said, "I'm just hoping I can get some work when I get there".I knew Ron Coleman,the Bass player, who was the person that made all the phone calls and was kind of the band leader on the gig and the next Tue night, I got a call from him and got to follow Buddy in the steel spot with the Sundance Band.
JE:-)>
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Nashville 112 x2 W/Knob Guards - Don't leave home with out one!
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Steve Benson · From: Massachusetts, USA

Great story!!!! Whoa!

_________________
Carter-Magnum S10. Georgeboards S-8 Stealth. Chandler Lap. Peavey Powerslide. Bunch of mandolins. Sitar. Oud. All that and a bag of chips.

Rick Schacter · From: Portland, Or.

My experience:

1.Bar rooms around the Portland metro area pay on average between $250 - $300 per night to split between the band. Casuals pay much better.
Classic Rock mixed with some classic country seems to go over with the crowd. They mostly just want to hear songs that they're familiar with, that they can dance to.
Since the no smoking law went into effect here, playing in a bar room isn't so bad especially if you're a singer. If you're a smoker, you probably won't like that law.

Up until this year I was playing almost every weekend. I also have not been very picky about where I was playing. Some of the places were total dives and some were not. There are several open mic and jam nights to go to during the week, but if you are the host band for those events, the pay is super crummy.

As far as pedal steel is concerned. I have recently been bringing my pedal steel to gigs that are basically rock and roll clubs and the curiosity about the instrument is incredible.
I usually have at least a few people come up to me asking questions about the instrument while I'm either setting up or tearing down.
Lately I've been the last one to go home because of taking time to answer people's questions.

2. Finding a day job here WILL be a challenge.

3. The people here are very laid back and friendly.

It does rain a lot here in the pacific NW, but it's an extremely beautiful place to live.
Ray Montee's description of the Portland, Or. scenery
is right on.

Good luck.

Rick[[/u]

James Mayer · Posted 16 Oct 2009 12:24 pm

My opinions of the music scene differ a bit from what has been posted here. However, keep in mind that this is coming from an amateur that is far removed from the cover band/country/classic rock scene.

I'd be willing to bet that Portland is the best music scene in the country. The place is absolutely saturated with musicians of every genre of music you can imagine. I'd love to see some real per-capita stats on this. I've lived here for ten years and every other person I meet is in a band of some sort. From '03 to July of '09, I ran an underground music venue in a converted 19th-century church. Everything you can think of came through there. I moved from SE to NE Portland in July and there are two bands, an opera singer and an oud/ney student, all within 4 houses from mine.

If you are into "world music" (yep, some GREAT Indian music), you'll love Portland. If you are into experimental/fusion/hybrids, you'll love Portland. However, I have a day job and can't tell you how much money you'll make or what the quality of the cover band/bar band scene is. It's an artsy town. Artists and musicians move here because you can work part-time and still afford to live and work on your passions. The bulk of the scene is about original music. Working musicians may not find the steady gigs that they can in other parts of the country.

The job-market is pretty bad, honestly. I was recently unemployed for about two months before finally getting a bite on my resume. However, everyone I know that moves here ends up staying. It's not as difficult to crack the Portland nut as it would be to move to San Fran or Manhattan. It's extremely affordable for what you are getting. I read somewhere that Portland has the highest per-capita population in the country of the people between the age of 25 and 35.

I LOVE the weather. It's never too hot (I'm from the Miss Delta) or too cold. It's mild all year. It's cloudy and the locals think that drizzle is rain. It actually doesn't rain as often as the reputation suggests. Anyway, plenty of outdoors stuff to do and plenty of dark winter days to stay inside on work on your art.

Oh, and the food culture is amazing.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

They have a strip club breakfast dinner, a bar/movie theater AND a topless juice bar in portland. Since I am happily married I cant partake in these apples from heaven....
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GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

James Mayer · Posted 16 Oct 2009 1:33 pm

There are a few brewery/restaurant/movie theaters. I'm not sure why that hasn't caught on elsewhere.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

James and Erik hit it about right. There's a lot to recommend Portland as a place to live, but the Oregon unemployment rate is really high, housing is expensive (compared to the Midwest where I'm from) but nothing compared to San Fran. It drizzles and spits more than it rains, there's maybe one to one and a half weeks of hot weather (in the mid to upper 90's) and it often doesn't snow in the winter. It's a very liberal town in most senses of the word.

There are lots of people who make music their livelihood here, but they do a lot of different things and they've been in town and built a rep over many years, so YMMV.

I love it here and will never live anywhere else if I can help it. Smile

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Primitive Utility Steel

James Mayer · Posted 16 Oct 2009 3:05 pm

Take Twayn as a an example of a Portland musician. He plays in a swing band and a doom metal band.....as well as playing middle eastern hand percussion and classical guitar.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

I friend of mine always said "specialization is for insects!"
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Primitive Utility Steel

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Plus 1 for everything that's been said about Portland. It's an absolute hot bed of musical creativity right now. Everybody I know is in two to four bands, and most of them are really original, creative and good.

Having said that, with more bands in the area than there are people, supply and demand says that only a few will make any actual, you know... money. And most of them are cover bands. But if you're in it for the art/craft of the deal, Go West, young man!

Just be sure to have a good line on a job before making the trek cross-country.

Steve Norman · From: Seattle Washington, USA

here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk
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GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

When Oregon/Washington are hard hit by some of that Canadian COLD BLAST.....most folks know enough to stay indoors for the few hours it generally takes for the ice to melt.

But it's those unfamiliar flat landers that happen on the scene.....minus snow tires and/or chains.....
and simply rely on their 'superior driving skills' to make it thro' the night. That's the way 'we always drive'.........

Those scnes were taken, if I'm not mistaken, in the west hills of Portland. A few hundred feet in elevation can do a lot, temperature-wise, to change the rules of the game.

I've driven 18-wheelers thro-out Oregon, Wash., Ida and Montana during the past 19 years and never had to chain up, even once. Weather-wise, Oregon/Wash are great areas to live in.......

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Don't forget, Ray is the most manly of men Mr. Green

I'm from the midwest where I would drive all winter with all-season radial tires, but here in Portland I won't drive when it snows without chains (cables) even for an inch of snow. That's because in Portland when it snows it always hovers just under freezing, which means that the snow immediately packs down to ice, and the treads on your tires become filled with ice and have zero traction.

Gak, I need to go buy some chains for the new car!
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Primitive Utility Steel

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

fwiw, I think a guy could make 10 grand a year playing music around town (and possibly dishwashing or waiting tables on the side).
That's basically $200 a week(end).
You could probably rent a room in a house near Hawthorne for +/-$200 a month.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

I think Pete's got it about right. (shudders...)

Life is indeed an adventure, and a tough one at that with only the end guaranteed.

If you want to play music, for money, you will find a way.

My part of life here is above the average as I see it, and I am VERY thankful.

I do have nightmares and an unceremonious string of losses coming up medically, as do a LOT of us.

I DO realise that things in other parts of the country are MUCH worse.

There is a lot to be said for Portland inasmuch as it's not in the top list of "mean" cities.

That's about all I can say.

Good luck. Like I said, "Craigslist" will tell you a lot. A lot of diverse people having fun, and a lot of wierd scenes. Not a lot of money.

EJL

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

and now to bring the gloom

Portland currently has 11.8 percent unemployment.
Oregon is near the highest in the nation (forth from last)

As for great paying gigs. My most recent gig was at the Comet in Seattle. They paid a five peice band $11 total. our drink tickets were only good for raniers and they wouldnt give them to us till 9 even tho they asked us to show up at 7:30.

I moved here from NYC thinking cost of living would be cheaper. wrong. Food here is way more expensive than in NYC and is about one millionth as good as it is there. My rent was the same as NYC. Housing prices are absurd tho not as absurd as the wackos in california.

People here in Seattle are simultaneously uncultured and snobbish. its an amazing combo. Ask where all the good restaurants are and they will tell you to go to the Spaghetti Factory. i wont go downtown anymore becuase there is nowhere to park at all. The taxed me an extra $300 a year for this stupid monorail project and then decided not to build it afterall. do i get my money back? no they spent it on "planning".

sorry to be so negative. POrtland seems infinitly cooler, but the unemployment scene there is scarry.

Twayn Williams · From: Portland, OR

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

portland seems way more laid back and less pretensious than seattle. I wish I had moved there instead. I dont know if its because of microsoft or if seattle got a large infusion of idiots after the whole grunge thing exploded..did everyone move up from LA to "get signed" in 1993 or something? thats what it feels like sometimes. yuppies and posers and methhead crackers...great mix.

theres still alot of great musicians here. its a good healthy music scene especially for rock, hard rock, punk, metal, doom. the nature is awesome, I love the weather. its not all bad.

people cant drive here. its called a turn signal..look into it please. also "merge" does not mean come to a complete stop at the end of a freeway onramp and wait for someone to let you in...it means to MERGE into trafiic !@!@ Mad

steve wrote:
"The People are passive aggressive/PC and will tell you what they think you want to hear instead of the truth. That was my hardest transition. You have to learn not to speak your mind and treat everyone like puppies."

obviously I haven to been here long enough to learn this. Ive never been kicked out of a band before I moved here. Ive been kicked out of three since. One for making fun of this bass players huge pedal board...I was joking..sort of. okay, not at all joking.

Steve Benson · From: Massachusetts, USA

This is becoming a very fun thread! With posts from Mr Montee!!! of whom I have great musical respect for. If you not seen his Jerry Byrd site...it's amazing. I've heard about the economy out there, I'm hoping it will turn around by the time I decide. I've a Job now and I'm hanging on by my fingernails.
I'm an odd ball re: Music. Sitar PSG and more. From what I hear folks out that way would be cool with that. I want a better outdoor life ( I practice to much) Less winter ( I shovel too much) and see and live in a part of america that speaks more to my soul. I've seen a lot of pictures and done a lot of reading and the PNW looks like God's country/middle earth. The steelers who post from there seem very cool. It would be a change and sometimes change is what is needed most. "Without change something inside us sleeps. The sleeper must awaken."
Duke Leto Atreides
Frank Herbert's DUNE ( he was from the NW as well Smile

Thanks all
_________________
Carter-Magnum S10. Georgeboards S-8 Stealth. Chandler Lap. Peavey Powerslide. Bunch of mandolins. Sitar. Oud. All that and a bag of chips.

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