| Author |
Topic: 3 cable hookup: tone improved even w optical volume pedal? |
Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
|
Posted 15 Apr 2009 6:54 am |
|
Hello,
I have never tried the 3 cable hookup, and am wondering if there are still tone advantages if a player is using a light dependent resistor pedal like the Hilton or a Goodrich LDR. I use NV 400s of course, if someone could post the correct signal path for this set-up that would also be helpful.
Thanks for reading my post.
Gerald |
|
|
 |
Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
|
Posted 15 Apr 2009 8:21 am
|
|
The original design passive (no powered electronics -- just an input and output jack plus a potentiometer that uses a string and pulley to move the pot from closed to open) volume pedals have an inherent 'feature'. The tone changes as the pedal moves from closed to open -- as the volume is lowered the high end response is compromised. At softer volumes the tone is bassier and 'wide open' the tone has better high end.
You see the 'Li'l Izzy' or the Goodrich Matchbox or the Hilton Sustain box on the market or in 'Buy and Sell' from time to time. These are buffer amps which allow the tone to be the same regardless of the volume setting. Brad Sarno's Black Box performs the same function with very high quality audiophile components and tube electronics.
The 3 cable hookup does a very similar thing -- it improves the frequency response of your volume pedal.
The Hilton volume pedal and Goodrich LDR (and several other Goodrich products like the 10K products) have this buffer amp technology built right into the pedal. If you use these pedals with active electronics (they will have a battery or AC plug) you will probably not see any improvement by adding the external buffer amps or three cable hookup.
Listen for yourself. Do you hear a difference? If you do and you like the result, keep using it. I never felt the need to use a matchbox or 3 cable hookup when using an active volume pedal. Your mileage may vary.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
|
|
|
Larry Hamilton
From:
Amarillo,Tx
|
Posted 15 Apr 2009 4:29 pm
|
|
I bought a Session 500 shortly after they were on the market back in the 80's and immediatley fell in love with the 3 cord hook up that was offered. I have had a 1000 and nv 112's and have have used the 3 cord hook up even with a Hilton pedal. I even used a Hilton pedal with a Hilton digital sustain with the 3 cord hook up. I am currentlu using a Hilton VP with a Sasrno Black Box. I have expermented with most of the hook ups and always go back to the 3 cord setup. However with my Evans I don't use the 3 cord setup with my Hilton VP but it still kicks Butt. Th ese are my observations only and my likes. To each his own. I realize that in some cases it may be overkill but that's just me. 
_________________
Keep pickin', Larry |
|
|
|
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
|
Posted 16 Apr 2009 2:41 am
|
|
Larry's post pretty well tells what is happening and why it doesn't make any difference with an "active" device.
The original intent with the 3 pedal hook up (and I too used it for years with a Session 500 and a Goodrich pot volume pedal) was to provide a constant impedence (load) on the guitar's pickups and get away from the tonal change caused by the passive (pot) volume pedal. Using the pedal in the Volume Pedal in/out (basically a low level effects loop even though it's not called that in the Session 500) will not affect tone.
Active pedals, such as the Hilton or Goodrich and many effect units, do the same thing, and with these there is no need for the 3 cord hookup.
From an electronics standpoint having two devices in series won't really make things better and depending on the devices could even have a negative effect on the signal. But, if someone is happy with all the stuff in line - it's their choice. |
|
|
|
Gerald Menke
From:
Stormville NY, USA
|
Posted 16 Apr 2009 6:44 am
|
|
Wow, thank you guys for the great, very detailed responses. I really appreciate the info, will have to try the 3 cord hookup with my passive Goodrich pedal one of these days. Hard to imagine it could sound better than my push pull into a Hilton into a Ken Fox modded NV 400, but who knows.
By the way, at a steel player's house the other night, my buddy showed me this nutty Franklin volume pedal that had two separate pots (an input and output for each) basically a backup pedal built in. Anybody else seen one of these? I didn't even know they existed, seems like a really great idea. The thing was gigantic, like the size of an old Dearmond fuzz-wah...
Best,
Gerald |
|
|
|
Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
|
Posted 16 Apr 2009 8:22 am
|
|
| That sounds like one of the stereo volume pedals Franklin made. Two inputs and two outputs. |
|
|
|
