Using and Adjusting Verticals

Tim Kowalski · From: Illinois, USA

I have graduated to a guitar that has 5 knees; one being a vertical. I am wondering how they are normally actuated so that I can adjust it and start taking advantage of another change.
What I am asking is:
A)Do you put the ball of your foot on the floor and do a tippy-toe to raise your knee, or lift your whole foot off the floor?
B)How much throw should it have and how close is it to your leg when your foot is on the floor?
C)What change do most players (or just yourself)use for the vertical? I currently rodded it to drop the 6th string a whole step.
Any help is greatly appreciated and I apologize for so many questions. I figured I'd get it all into one post.

Tim
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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

My vertical lowers the 5th string B down to Bb. It's got a short throw and is very easy to use. I have it about 3/4 of an inch above my knee. I raise my whole leg when using it. I don't have a split, so it's not used with the "A" pedal.
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Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Same change on my vert. But I do have a split. I'll make up a number and say that I use it split with the A pedal 80% of the time and alone 20%. I have it adjusted just barely above the leg in pedals-down position. As you say, I raise on tiptoes to activate it. When used alone I just raise the whole leg. It has a light touch and a short throw.
Some guitars don't have enough adjustment range to get the lever in just the right position. I have a vert on a push-pull that is so far from my reach as to be unusable. If/when I get back into playing that guitar I will do some machining to rig some sort of extension.
For comfort and improved ergonomics I sculpted a slip-on lever cover from wood for my Fess that feels super nice.

Tim Kowalski · From: Illinois, USA

Okay - it seems that this must be a useful change. Thanks for the detail on positioning, Lee.

Jon, please pordon my ignorance. I am pretty green on pedal steel and have only enough theory to understand things based on chords or kind of intuition (which I believe is stronger than the average person). I have played bass and guitar in my share of bands over many years.
Anyway, would this be something that would help to get minor chords and single note runs (using the split) as if it was a half A pedal?
Can you give me any examples of how to use it? I might see where I could use the split a bunch.

Thanks to both of you - I am going to make the change tomorrow. I hope that some others will be able to share a few simple licks for a brother who is really trying to get this bucket off the ground!

Tim
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Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

You got it exactly--same as a half pedaled A pedal. Minor chord with AB down, aug chord with A down, 7-9 chord with just the v (two frets down from open---see tab). And I frequently use the split in runs.
Now---a lot depends on whether you have a split tuner on 5. If not, you may be able to tune both the v and the split reasonably close but ultimately you will have to choose one or the other (the A# or the C) to be truly in tune. On one guitar that does not have a split tuner, I have chosen the C as the more important note (for me). The A# is close and somewhat usable but not really in tune.

Here's a little demo of some uses.

Les Green · From: Jefferson City, MO, R.I.P.

Tim,

Go to you tube and search for Buddy Emmons doing "Wills point". You'll get a very good view of the Master using the vertical.
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Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I use the vertical to raise my F# strings to G (G natural, not G# as so many others do) and I only use it in conjunction with the B pedal. Sometimes with the A and B pedals together, to get a 7th chord, sometimes with just the B pedal to get a scale passage.

I believe the B to Bb change is very important, but that it is better to put it on a regular knee lever. (Mine is on a wrist lever.)
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Tim Kowalski · From: Illinois, USA

Another epiphany!!!
Bob needs a lightbulb emoticon. The awesome news is that my Rains has splits on every string. I am not using ANY of them yet. This will get me through the intro to Your Man by Josh Turner. I was trying to program my foot to get half an A pedal - hit and miss.

Jon - can you kindly provide your copedent or give me some ideas for other splits.

The lights are coming on now.

Thanks a heap.

Tim
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Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Thanks Jon, great info. I too am setting up my Rains and Derby splits. Never having had or used them before and making the decisions as what to do with what, is at least perplexing. Right now I have my 5th Lowered a half step, A&B pedals down and a half step A&B pedals up. My 6th is also lowered a half step the same way.
The 5th on my LKV which also lowers my 10th, the 6th on my RKL which also raises my 1st&2nd. I miss the raise I had on my 7th on my other steel and probably will incorporate it in the future, somewhere. The newer steels are so easy to make changes to, it's almost unbelievable. Both of these come with splits on every string, how handy is that?

I too would like to see you setup. Thanks...ds

Dick Sexton · From: Greenville, Ohio

Sorry, my finger hiccuped...

Ben Jones · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

This is one of the two levers i dont touch.
The other being the first string raise on RKR.
I am a hack. Sad

shoot, you might as well add the 2nd string lower since it only gets used when i practice.
and now that i think about it the C pedal also.

sometimes i just wanna huck this guitar off a cliff.
I'll never get to where i wanna be on it.
okay , sorry, had to vent there...

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I feel the pain, Ben. But before huckin it, announce when/where on the forum so someone can try to catch it. Not to get them a free steel. Just that maybe it will be someone nobody likes who gets crushed trying to catch it and some good comes out of it.

re: my setup--it's been a long time since I've charted it and a bunch has changed--it's a mutated U-12 with 8 & 8. D

The most common split is the 6th string full step lower/B pedal split. Highly recommended. Of course as with anything, not essential but there's a lot of good stuff there.

And yes, I do the same tuned split on the low B that I do on the 5th string.

btw--another thing I do a lot with the v is AB down with the v and with the E lever lowering the E's. A full dim7.

Barry Gaskell · From: Cheshire, UK

Hi Tim
Strictly speaking Jon's chart showing the 'G7' is actually a partial G9th notes A,B,F. notes 3,b7,9(2) of the scale. Can of course be sub'd for a seven and sounds cool, though misses out the root and the fifth tone.
Pedantic I know, but I thought I'd mention it.

Work your split as in Jon's chart (Cm) and also flatten your two E's and you have a diminished on strings 8,7,6,5,4,3. I use this all the time. ( this move favours those who have their E-Eb lever on the right knee, as it's a bit awkward doing it all on your left knee.
Cheers
Barry

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Tim -

There's an alternative that has not been offered in the posts thus far - changing the physical configuration of the vertical lever to a second LKL. My teacher has moved his LKL and RKL as close to the rear apron as is feasible. He then added a "second" LKL to the rear and slightly to the right of the existing LKL. Now, instead of having to raise one's entire leg off of the floor or run the risk of partially activating the A or B pedal all that is required is to move one's left knee forward a smidgen and catch the "new" LKL with your knee cap. I made the change to my instrument and thus eliminated what I considered to be a major hassle in activating the LKV. It works for him and it darn sure works for me! Needless to say, the physical configuration of your instrument will determine whether or not you may make the change.

Lest anyone think that I consider myself a major player giving sage advice to all others then perish the thought! I'm a relative novice and I've only done what has been accepted as gospel here on the forum: - I've reworked my instrument so that it "fits" me, and me alone. You might seriously consider the above "fix" to the awkwardness of the typical LKV. If you're even mildly interested in the above concept then just flip your guitar upside down, mentally start moving things around and then do a considerable amount of "pondering" before you break out the tools and order an additional lever.

It may just work for you, too.

Respectfully,

Richard

Tim Kowalski · From: Illinois, USA

Thanks to all - this is all excellent information. I will need to digest all of this or maybe just go for it and experiment. I am thinking that I will start with using the vert on the 5th string and employ the split with the A pedal for now.
I lower my E's with the RKL.
I was wrangled to paint a bedroom this weekend, so I haven't had a chance to touch my guitar. Gotta keep the peace. Hopefully I can try it tonight.
Tim
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Nathan Golub · From: Durham, NC

On my first steel with a vertical, it raised the 1st string a whole tone and lowered the 6th a whole tone. The RKL lowered the 5th a 1/2 tone. Over time I found myself using the vertical change more than the B-Bb. When I got my new guitar I needed to switch some changes around anyway, so I put the 1st string raise on the RKL, since that was a bit easier to use with A/B/C pedal combinations than having it on my vertical. The B-Bb went on my vertical. So far, I've found this works much better for the way I play. If the copedent is pretty easy to change on your guitar, I'd say try switching between both changes on your vertical and see which you prefer.

David Doggett · Posted 9 Mar 2009 8:25 am

Although some above implied it, nobody said out right that the best use of a vertical is for a change that will mostly be used in combination with the A or B pedal or both. When your toe is holding down a pedal, it is very smooth and easy to raise your knee to get the vertical. To use a vertical without any pedals, you either have to shift your whole body and raise your whole leg and foot, or you have to take your foot off the pedals to put your toe on the floor to leverage the knee raise. Both are very awkward, slow and inefficient. Therefore, the two most popular uses of LKV are to raise the 1st and 7th strings a half-step to give a 7th with the A and B pedals down, or to lower the 5th string a half-step to give a minor with the pedals down.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Pedal A & V Lever
example in Em :

3-----3-----3-----3----3
4-----3-----3-----3----3
5-----3A----3AV---3----3V

Great Lever that V
could'nt be without it

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

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