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Topic: Single Coil versus Humbucking pickups |
Nigel Mullen
From:
Cassilis, New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 25 Mar 2009 5:15 am |
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| I am thinking about switching my humbucker for a single coil pickup and just wanted to get some input from you on your experience with the single coils. Thanks so much Nigel |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2009 10:25 am
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Single coil pickups can sound great. Many top pros and ams use single coils.
But, they will pick up unwanted electrical hum and noise.
I carry one of each. If I can play with the single coil I will. Sometimes have to change to humbucker design when the noise gets too bad.
Old Saying from the 60's..."Play louder than the hum" |
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Roger Francis
From:
kokomo,Indiana, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2009 1:38 pm
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| Mine isn't that noticable till i get allmost full throttle, so i keep plenty of headroom so i don't have to dump the pedal, it's worth putting up with to me, love the single coil. |
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Nigel Mullen
From:
Cassilis, New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 25 Mar 2009 4:50 pm
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| Thanks Ron & Roger. I did'nt realize the hum was that loud. I would like to improve my sound but I don't think I need to add another problem to my rig. Thanks for filling me in on this guys. Nigel |
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Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 25 Mar 2009 7:33 pm
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| Single coil for me. I've tried others, and ended up losing the sweetness I feel the single coil brought to the table. I have all my effects, UPS, tuner, etc inside a 4-space rack box. Inside, everything is well grounded and secure. Though I may catch some slack for this, the Monster-2500 UPS has very much solved any hum or buzz issues for me. I'm sure other UPSs do the same.. Furman, etc. I use GeorgeL outside the rack unit. No problem for years. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 25 Mar 2009 8:51 pm
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What kind of humbucker are you now using?
On a Tele or Strat, only a single-coil cuts it for me. But for pedal steel, even single-coil pickups tend to be so highly wound that I am very happy with something like a Bill Lawrence humbucker. His pickups have much lower inductance than a traditional pickup design, and hence don't exhibit the amount of high end transparency loss that many humbuckers to, to my ears.
Another humbucking design that I like is the Tonealigner - a pair came on the Fessenden I bought last year, and they're very nice.
My problem with single-coils is that as I increase the volume with the volume pedal to keep a note going as the envelope decays, the noise floor comes up dramatically if I'm in a noisy environment. With a Strat or Tele with single-coils, I can move around and find a null in the electromagnetic interference and keep the noise under control. Not so on pedal steel, which is stuck on the floor. On a loud gig, this is no biggie, but on a quiet gig or in a studio, this is intolerable to me and the people I work with.
But then again, I'm not taking the original Emmons single coils off my '74 push-pull. No way, Jose. |
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Nigel Mullen
From:
Cassilis, New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 5:41 am
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| Dave: to answer your question, I'm currently using George L E66. My sound is pretty good right now but I have never really got to the place where I am completely happy. I've been buying and changing equipment for the last 35 years and I still like to try new things. A lot of posts I've read seem to lean toward the single coil pickup but if there is a major hum that comes with them, then I'll stick with what I have. I would really like to thank you quys for the information you have shared with me. Nigel |
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin
From:
Sweden
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 10:31 am
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I´ll stick with the HUM issue for a sec...copper tape
shielding of the interior is an old standard trick
among Fender guitar-pickers,but some connoiseurs
have asked me to get RID of the shielding inside
their guitars,their conclusion being:"when the hum
goes,so does some of the precious tone"...and,these
guys who wouldn´t be caught dead with a "Noiseless",
"Virtual Vintage","Kinman" etc...open for debate...
McUtsi |
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Ulf Edlund
From:
Umeå, Sweden
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 1:30 pm
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Nigel, on what guitar?
_________________
1983 Emmons D10 SKH, Carter SD10, Nashville 112, Session 500, ProfexII, Lapsteels, GT-Beard reso, guitars of all kinds...
http://www.myspace.com/ulfedlund |
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Nigel Mullen
From:
Cassilis, New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 26 Mar 2009 4:52 pm
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| Ulf: Emmons Push Pull |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 27 Mar 2009 12:23 am
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I think most will agree that the SC's would be the first overall choice, until you arrive at the room from hell, then the 2nd choice (HB'er) will get put back on the Steel and they eventually become the only choice !
t |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 27 Mar 2009 1:03 pm
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As many have said, single coils on a push-pull deliver the upper mids -- one of the characteristics of that guitar that many lust over -- a bit better than most of the humbuckers. There are good humbuckers. The E-66 was designed to emulate a '66 Emmons. I've tried several and the best I could find was Jerry Wallace's TrueTone pickups. He will wind them as you wish. He uses a scatter-winding technique that doesn't seem to pick up as many of the electromagnetic gremlins.
My advice: a single coil (either a TrueTone or your pickup rewound in Jerry's shop) if it doesn't hum too badly in the usual environment where you play. All three of my guitars have single coils and I play gigs and sessions where quiet is important and I haven't had a complaint.
If not, an E-66 or BL-710 or -910 are possibilities. I had a BL-912 (the 12 string version of the 910 pickup) and it sounded very good.
_________________
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
2021 Rittenberry S/D-12 8x7, 1976 Emmons S/D-12 7x6, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Quilter ToneBlock 202 TT-12 |
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Nigel Mullen
From:
Cassilis, New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 28 Mar 2009 12:03 pm
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| Thanks so much for all your input on this. Really appreciated. Sincerely Nigel |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 2:40 am
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| Nigel Mullen wrote: |
| I've been buying and changing equipment for the last 35 years and I still like to try new things. A lot of posts I've read seem to lean toward the single coil pickup but if there is a major hum that comes with them, then I'll stick with what I have. |
Nigel, you will find some players using single-coils, but the vast majority prefer the humbucking designs. They use them primarily because they virtually eliminate the hum/noise problems that we have quite often. If you've been looking for a sound for 35 years and haven't found it, it would be wise to at least try the single coils to see if they have that sound you're seeking. (Actually, if you've been playing steel for 35 years, I'm surprised you didn't start with single coils, since they didn't get really popular until the mid 70's.) |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 4:23 am
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This I relate to:
| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| My problem with single-coils is that as I increase the volume with the volume pedal to keep a note going as the envelope decays, the noise floor comes up dramatically if I'm in a noisy environment. |
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Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 10:37 am
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Brian,
What do you do for grounding? I'm no electrician, but I never plug into a surge-protection power strip, as plugging a surge protector into a surge protector is not recommended. (at least with computer terminals). I will always find my own 3-prong grounded wall outlet. I plug a 6-foot grounded (heavy gauge) extention cord to my equipment, and I'm good to go. Keep in mind I depend on my own rack-UPS to take care of the hum... and it does... even when there is floresant lighting close by. |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 1:45 pm
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Jeff,
I've always believed that regardless of how "clean" the power is to an amp, single coils pickup electromagnetic fields in the air from adjacent devices that produce these stray radio waves, like lighting, motors, dimmers, etc.
You're saying a good power source cleaner-upper unit will make single coils hum less? |
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Jeff Hyman
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 2:02 pm
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Brian,
Let me start by reminding everyone that I'm not a guru on this... and that over the years other things may also have changed.. ie: no wall-warts inside the rack case unit. Since I have installed the Monster-2500, my hum was gone. I've played gigs before and after the UPS. I trust my ears. |
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Ivan Posa
From:
Hamilton, New Zealand
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Posted 29 Mar 2009 2:04 pm
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| Nigel, the new Alumitone pickup is worth considering. I have just installed one in my Zum Hybrid and it sounds great, very much single coil sound. I am sure it will work fine in a P/P. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 30 Mar 2009 11:38 am
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A magnetic wave close to your single coil pickup is the culprit. Try positioning a wallwart close to your pickup and you will aggree.
I have been in a venue that had such a strong standing magnetic wave that the hum was louder than the signal. It probably came from a large industrial transformer that was close by outside.
No amount of shielding will kill all the hum in a signle coil pickup - you must leave the top of the pickup w/out shielding or you will kill the string coupling signal. It's better to shield the offending sources - transformers.
There are two things that can create a signal in a pickup - your string pulling the magnetic lines of flux produced by the magnet in your pickup back and forth, or a standing magnetic wave. Humbuckers are wound so that a standing magnetic wave produces opposite lines of force displacement so it cancels, whereas the strings on your guitar produce in phase (additive) signals. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 30 Mar 2009 12:02 pm
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I had E66's in my ShoBud and loved the tone, especially for recording. However, when I put some True Tones in there - the end result for me was fantastic. They have stayed in the guitar and will continue to do so. I can live with the hum - just - but the string separation and balance of Jerry Wallace's pickups are what I am looking for. All subjective of course, and it really does boil down to personal choice.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 30 Mar 2009 10:02 pm
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I agree with Jim P. - you can't magnetically shield the top of the pickup and still have a magnetic field for the vibrating strings to perturb - that is how the signal is created in the pickup coil(s). So if there is strong electromagnetic interference, it will be coupled. If you use a single-coil, that's just the way it is.
A humbucker is made from two coils that are magnetically and electrically out of phase. Electromagnetic interference that comes in from outside couple in each coil nearly the same and get approximately canceled because the coils are electrically out of phase. But string vibrations sensed magnetically come into each coil out of phase with each other. But then the electrically out of phase coils reverse that phase relationship and the voltage output from the pair is now in phase.
There are two issues with humbuckers that tend to give them less presence. First, if two equivalent coils are side-by-side, the magnetic sensing window of the pickup is double that of a single coil of that type, which tends to sense a broader range of the string and gives a less sharply-defined tonality. Second, if both coils are wound similarly to a single-coil, then the number of winds is double and the DC resistance is higher. This tends to lead to higher inductance (which cuts the high frequency response) and a lower Q factor (which broadens the resonant peak and cuts the sharpness of the tone). Plenty of players - especially guitar players - like the fatter tone of a humbucker, but many insist on a single coil.
But even if one doesn't like that type of fatter tone, there are things that can be done to deal with this. For example, changing magnet material or reducing the number of winds in each coil can reduce the inductive impedance of each coil, giving a brighter response. Similarly, one can somehow stack the coils instead of placing them side-by-side to narrow the magnetic sensing window of the strings. This can give a sharper, more clearly defined response more similar to a single-coil.
I've said many times on here that I really like Lawrence pickups because he pioneered humbucking pickup designs with these ideas in mind. |
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