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Topic: Charlie Parker Invents His Own Language |
Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 12:15 pm |
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WOW.. and Buddy Rich playing his tail off as usual with the smallest kit ever.. I bet he counted that entire solo too.
I heard he's died. |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 12:18 pm
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Yowzah Jimbeaux! Bird blowing on Rhythm changes with a young Buddy Rich on drums. Looked like Ray Brown on bass but I'm not sure. Love it!
Bo- Buddy Rich passed away in 87. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 12:22 pm
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Shef.. I knew that.. I actually gave BR a guitar lesson once he was a very close friend of a friend here in Philly.
You ever hear the joke about the guy who called Buddy's house and asked to speak to him? |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 12:26 pm
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| Yep. I know that joke. I shoulda guessed you knew Buddy Rich was dead. Did you ever hear the "bus tape" of Buddy? |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 1:01 pm
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Yep, he was a real piece of work. He told me that if you couldn't play your A$$ off, you should quit.
Did you ever hear his daughters album? neither did he.. and that was before he passed.
Last edited by Bo Borland on 8 Feb 2009 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 1:17 pm
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| Lol! I think Buddy's daughter's name is Kathy if I remember correctly. He had a jazz club for awhile here in NYC called 'Buddy's Place'. I went there to hear Dizzy Gillespie's big band once and Buddy actually stiffed Diz for that gig. A few months later the club shut down. |
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Tony Glassman
From:
The Great Northwest
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 1:33 pm
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Never been a real fan of Buddy Rich.
Obviously the guy had great chops, but his drumming always seems to reflect an "exhibitionist" quality. He never seems to blend.......I'd much rather listen to Klook or Elvin, just to name a few. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 1:56 pm
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Rich was a master technician and a superb showman. But it has always bothered me that he was thrown into these Bird sessions. It's sorta like a promoter getting the brilliant idea to pair Merce Cunningham with Peggy Fleming and having her do triple Lutz's while he's doing his thing to a Cage score.
I'd like to saythat this is a good illustration of the difference between an artist and a showman except that Parker's not exactly on his game.
Still, I take away more from a Parker bootleg on a bad night than I do from Rich at the top of his world.
ps---I love the Rich stories and yes, I've heard the bus tapes.
But my feelings about him as an artist were formed long before I knew anything about his rep as a human being. I imagine that I wouldn't be too fond of Bird either if he pulled some of the stuff on me that he supposedly pulled on others (hocking my steel....?) But he rocks my world. |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 2:12 pm
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| I was right, it's Ray Brown on bass, and Hank Jones (Elvin's older brother) is the pianist. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 9:56 pm
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Speaking ill of Buddy Rich....geez.
Notice who Bird gave the solo to.....
Notice who Bird is smiling at as he plays said solo..
You guys are goofy. |
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 8 Feb 2009 11:17 pm
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| Bill Hatcher wrote: |
| You guys are goofy. |
Ohhh, that cuts like a knife! 
Last edited by Mike Shefrin on 10 Jan 2010 1:55 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bill Cunningham
From:
Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2009 3:58 am
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And there's the famous Buddy Rich line when he went to the Emergency Room with his heart attack and the doctor asked "what's bothering you," and he replied "country music". 
He was engaged in a public feud with Charlie Daniels around the time Ray Stevens recorded Misty. He was publicly his usual opinionated self on that particular arrangement and Charlie took him on as I remember.
_________________
Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 9 Feb 2009 7:08 pm
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I heard that once when BR was on a show with Dusty Springfield he sent her a box of broken glass.
I wonder what his intended message was. |
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John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Feb 2009 12:00 am
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Some interesting history on this clip... This is one of only two known video clips of Charlie Parker. The other is a television show he appeared on with Gillespie a couple of years after this.
This film was produced by Norman Granz near the end of 1950. You can tell, these musicians are all from the "Jazz At The Philharmonic" roster of the time. The music was recorded in a studio, and Granz hired cinematographer Gjon Mills, the same guy who filmed the clip of Billie Holiday playing with Lester Young that someone posted a while ago. The film was shot with the musicians miming to the prerecorded tracks. For some reason, the audio was released on vinyl without the corresponding video. In the 1990's Granz finally released it together as "Norman Granz Presents Improvisation".
As far as the Buddy Rich thing goes, I think there are alot of people who have always felt that, as good as he was, his swing-era schooled drumming didn't compliment the bebop elements of Bird's music as much as, say, Max Roach might have.
As far as the huge grin Parker seems to beam at Rich is concerned, if you look at how abruptly it starts and ends it's fairly obvious it's an edit. I'd be willing to bet he's listening to a joke from Ray Brown during a break
Interesting clip, thanks Jim !
By the way, there are also related clips from the same occasion with Lester Young in them which are pretty cool, just to see him.
-John |
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Jussi Huhtakangas
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Mike Shefrin
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Posted 10 Feb 2009 7:00 am Buddy Rich
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| Jon Light wrote: |
| Rich was a master technician and a superb showman. But it has always bothered me that he was thrown into these Bird sessions. It's sorta like a promoter getting the brilliant idea to pair Merce Cunningham with Peggy Fleming and having her do triple Lutz's while he's doing his thing to a Cage score. |
| John Steele wrote: |
As far as the Buddy Rich thing goes, I think there are alot of people who have always felt that, as good as he was, his swing-era schooled drumming didn't compliment the bebop elements of Bird's music as much as, say, Max Roach might have. |
Excellent observations from Jon and John. Buddy Rich was really a Big Band drummer and always seemed out of place and heavy handed in a small group setting to my ears. This being said, he was one of the three greatest Big Band drummers of all time in my opinion. Gene Krupa and Louie Bellson being the other two. Buddy was something of a child prodigy, tap dancing professionally at the age of four, and soon after taking up the drums. His technique was somewhat unorthodox since he didn't use the "match grip". Drummers will know what I'm talking about here. From a technical standpoint, he arguably had the greatest "press roll" of them all, and frequently exploited this during his solos. He was and will always be a "drummer's drummer". While I'm on the subject of drums, I think that the greatest jazz drummer who ever lived was Philly Joe Jones, and dozens of jazz drummers whom I've worked with such as Jimmy Lovelace (Wes Montgomery's drummer) and Bobby Durham (Oscar Peterson's drummer) concurred with me on this. Okay, I'll shutup now.  |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 10 Feb 2009 8:06 am
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| Quote: |
| And there's the famous Buddy Rich line when he went to the Emergency Room with his heart attack and the doctor asked "what's bothering you," and he replied "country music". |
I heard that when Johnny Gimble had a stroke many years back, the doctor informed him that he may have trouble remembering some things to which he replied "I hope the Orange Blossom Special is one of them." |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 10 Feb 2009 8:12 am
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| I've worked with such as Jimmy Lovelace (Wes Montgomery's drummer) and Bobby Durham (Oscar Peterson's drummer) concurred with me on this. |
I thought Ed Thigpen was Oscar Peterson's drummer, unless Bobby took over when Thigpen left in '65. |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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John Steele
From:
Renfrew, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 10 Feb 2009 9:55 am
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Jim, yep, that's the one. Interestingly, the pianist in that clip is stride master Dick Hyman, who proves he can play anything with anybody.
Barry, although Thigpen was identified with one of the classic Peterson trios, Bobby Durham worked with Oscar alot in later years. The "Live at the Blue Note" recordings (I think there are 4) done in the early 90's featured Durham on drums as well as Oscar's old colleagues Herb Ellis and Ray Brown.
-John
p.s. Oscar's solo rendition of "Old Folks" from the live Blue Note recordings remains for me one of the most stunningly perfect examples of jazz piano ever. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 10 Feb 2009 10:44 am
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| The thing that always amazes sax players who watch those old Bird videos is the efficiency of his finger technique. His fingers barely move, and never leave the keys. Of course you know from the recordings how great the music was. But when you see his fingers for the first time, you realize he was truly the whole package, with absolutely stunning technique. |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 12 Feb 2009 4:35 am
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Slightly off topic but with you aficionados about I would like to share this great piece of musicianship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5UU97zsnW4
The piece is "Tin Tin Deo" by Oscar Peterson from the "Exclusively For My Friends" set of discs recorded in a parlor in Germany... must have been about 1967 because I bought the album as a 14 year old and played it to death. I just loved this track.
But this is a transcription! .... note for note by classical pianist Fred Moyer, and damn if it isn't perfect. This piece has been on my mind for a long time as a big band arrangement and maybe I'll eventually find the time. There are plenty of arrangements of this tune but Oscar's version is pure heaven.
Hope you like it. |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 12 Feb 2009 9:49 am
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Well that’s technique for ya. And what an amazing transcription. But I think Peterson smoothed it and bluesed it so much it lost the essential Latin character of this classic, as exhibited here: Orquestra Harlow
And here’s another kind of technique exhibited on the same song: Marina de la Riva. |
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