Heresy

Mark Butcher · From: Scotland

I should read my Machiavelli I suppose, suggesting that anything made after the sixities or outside the USA is worth having, but its not my experience (see Digitech RP150 thread in Electronics).

Long ago as a teenager I managed to get a Fender Jaguar made in 1962. It was deeply unfashionable at the time, that’s why I could afford it. It was without doubt the worst guitar I have ever had.

Guitar legends the Shadows obviously thought so too, here is an except from Guitar magazine from 1974.

I used Fenders until we had trouble with them. In 1961, I think, when Fenders were made available in Britain, the agency offered us all a Fender each in the same colours. It looked rather good on stage, we thought. So we all had these matching instruments, which we used for a few years. Bruce was always having trouble with his fingerboards, he had four or five necks on one of his guitars. I had them tested on some sort of machine that measures the distances of the frets, we found that the four or five frets after the fifth were slightly out of position. So then we used Burns.

I love the mojo of old stuff but the engineering, quality control and materials used to make everything today from electric guitars to cars to scientific instruments is both fantastic and affordable to all.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Mark Butcher · From: Scotland

I'm a luthier, I can get a huge range of wood today. I have to pay for it but I can get it, fifty years ago I wouldn't have been able to.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Yes, Burns, first choice of legendary guitarists worldwide. Laughing

Apparently a lot of Fender players (e.g. Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Eric Johnson, Danny Gatton etc. etc. etc.) don't or didn't know much about guitars or ignored the advice of Guitar Legends the Shadows.

Oh well, if they're happy in their ignorance...

Re the Jaguar (and also the Jazzmaster), it was mainly the gimmicky wiring along with the bridge and vibrato tailpiece design which gave it less sustain, that people didn't like. Joe Pass's playing didn't seem to suffer too much when he used one for a bit. A lot of players have done pretty well with them. I have never heard complaints about fret placement before.

I had a '62 Jaguar and properly set-up it was a pretty decent guitar. No worse than most of the other almost 200 various Gibsons, Gretsch's, Fenders etc. I've had over the last 40 or so years. I had a Burns too. It was interesting.

That wood you say you couldn't get 50 years ago did exist... by the way, did you try to get some 50 years ago? Some things are easier to get nowdays in more areas because of better access due to improved highways, transportation and shipping than 50 years ago... and the supply is dwindling and it's getting down to using wood of lesser quality or none.

You're a luthier... were you building guitars 50 years ago? My dad was, along with custom furniture and cabinets. I started working with him when I was 10. An uncle also made violins and acoustic guitars, another uncle and cousin made electric guitars and steels..... and good wood was much easier to find then. In fact you're the only luthier I've ever heard say it's easier to find now, every other one I've ever heard or read has talked about good wood getting more and more scarce. Guess you know something they don't, or they should all move to your area.

Richard Damron · From: Gallatin, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

Mark Butcher -

I built a dozen so-so classic guitars back in the early to mid 60's. Quality wood was easy to come by. Two names that come to mind are Monteath and Constantine in the New York City area. Genuine Brazilian rosewood logs 3' in diameter. Cut into "flitches" with adjacent pieces "page-matched". Quarter-sawn German spruce also page-matched. No sweat getting anything that you needed.

Haven't the foggiest what the availability was in the UK at the time.

Respectfully,

Richard

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Heresy all you like, man.

Tell ya' what, though. Any time you get one of those inferior old pre-CBS Fenders, and frustration with its quality makes you want to take a pick-axe to it, y'all just let me know. I'll be happy to trade you even with a comparable, modern rendition. New, Improved Blue Cheer, right? Wink

I do agree that there are some really fine modern guitars - including renditions of old Fenders and Gibsons - being made today. But I agree with Bill that they really have to pay attention to the wood and handwork, and it costs quite a bit. My Gibson historic-reissue '59 Les Paul, made with eastern hard-rock curly maple on the top (instead of the soft western big-leaf maple they've normally used for the fancy tops in recent years) and a very good quality rosewood (a bit hard to tell whether it's Madagascar or Brazilian - they did both that year, and some of the Madagascar boards I've seen look a lot like Brazilian), is as good as any Paul I've played, and I've had a few good ones (gold tops, specials and juniors, not sunbursts). Similarly with a couple of custom shop vintage Fender replicas I've had. I have old ones to compare to, and they are very good indeed.

Conversely, a lot of the stuff churned out on CNC machines without much human intervention is good quality and reasonably priced, but the vast majority is not comparable at all, to me.

But Burns? For some time, I had a Burns Vibra Slim, and several years prior to that, a Burns split-jazz. Both complete with "Wild Dog" sound (a pure kitschy marketing ploy, IMO). To my tastes, these were just barely OK - not remotely comparable to a nice old Fender or Gibson in either tone or playability. More like a Gretsch, they had lots of kitsch, but I'd prefer any semi-comparable Gretsch. In fact, I've always used those guitars as a perfect example of why "vintage isn't always important".

Of course, this is all a matter of personal taste, and those are just my opinions.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

I can tell you that 50 years ago the furniture makers here in the US culled out the curly and birdseye maple and burned it in the furnace to heat the factory. They could not use it because it chipped out when running it through planers and shapers.....Not enough demand to sell it.

30 years ago I used to go to a butcher block factory south of Atlanta to buy figured maple. When they would get a train car load in from up north there might be 5 boards in the ENTIRE car of maple that looked nice enough to build a guitar out of. The owner would cull the figured maple out and call me because he could not use it.

You look at Gibson archtop guitars from the 40s and 50s. Even the lower line models had much better woods.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

In regards to the Burns guitars. My buddy had one..a Burns Bison. He bought it out of a barrell of crappy guitars that a store in Birmingham had just jammed all the dead beat guitars in at giveaway prices. Those things were barely viable.

Glen Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

I'm really a Tele man when it comes to guitars, but my '65 Jazzmaster is the best sounding and best playing guitar I've ever owned in the 30 years I've been playing. The only thing wrong with Jazzmasters is the cheesy bridge, but mine had a tune-o-matic on it when I got it.

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

I have a pre-CBS Fender, and it's one of my favourite guitars, but it's not the easiest to play.
That is a 1980's Japanese Tele copy- a Westone.
That is the "Own Brand" version of the product produced by the Matsumoko factory which also produced guitars for Aria, Epiphone and Vox amongst many others.
I think that the golden age of solid electrics was the age of the 1980's Superstrat and the technical virtuosi who played them. I refer to Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert and the like.
I can't listen to their music, but the guitars they used were superb.
Incidentally, I have read that Leo Fender, of sainted memory, did not know the correct "Twelfth Root of two" formula for fret spacing. He used a simpler approximation, which may have been the cause of the intonation issues that Hank Marvin refers to.

Cheers
Dave

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

In the late 50's my Dad bought me a Les Paul Goldtop. It was nice. In 1962 I traded it to a friend for a jazzmaster. That was a nice guitar. I let it go in 1966. My second goldtop, I gave to my son at his marriage. Have had a variety of guitars, including 12 now, mostly Fender. Even bought a Fender Jacket. Keeps me warm.

In my opinion no guitar is worth 30K or whatever. The new ones play as good as the old, long as you set them up to your liking.
_________________
heavily medicated for your safety

Glen Derksen · From: Alberta, Canada

30k would be more that I need for a satisfactory collection.

Leslie Ehrlich · From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

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