Intro's, endings, fills, turn-arounds,licks,ect.

Jack Mattison · From: North Bend, Wa

A question for the pro's........ Are there pretty much a standerd amount of intro's, fills, endings, licks,ect. that have been used, and are still being used on stage and in the studio that you guys have come up with over the years. I know I have found alot of teaching material from differant Pro. Steelers on this. Do you guys pretty much still use the same stuff, or are you always finding new stuff??. I want to start learning these things as I go along with the other stuff I am learning on this great instrument. Am I on the right track???.. Thanks............... Jack<><
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Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

An intro or a fill is there to get the listener's attention. Many songs just kick off with the last line of the chorus. Playing exactly the melody of the chorus works just fine, but you can use different string grips (which create different harmonies) and positions on the guitar to make MANY variations -- and that's JUST STICKING TO THE MELODY. Many of the most memorable 'hooks' play the chord progression of the melody but create an interesting COUNTERMELODY. Most every intro you will hear either uses the melody of the song to create a nice two or sometimes three note melody OR an entirely new melody that fits the changes.

Often the turnaround, and sometimes the ending, are the same chords. Sometimes, repeating the same one is cool -- people remember it.

The solo is usually either a verse or chorus, or portion of one or the other. Again, either the melody with appropriate harmony, or a nice little countermelody works fine. You can get as 'out there' as you think fits the music, but there's never anything wrong with playing the melody with conviction.

No. There is no set number of licks or intros or fills. Just listen to the song and hum along with it until you find a fill or turnaround you like -- then remember it and learn it. You don't have to play only licks off of records. Most bandleaders will love to have you play anything that makes the song better. That's what we're paid for.

The best thing to teach yourself is to play anything you can hum. If you can't hum it, you can't play it.
(That's just my own opinion, but it IS true)
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
My CD's: 'I've Got Friends in COLD Places' - 'Pedal Steel Guitar'
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Clinton Erb · From: Ligonier, PA

Joe Gretz · From: Washington, DC, USA

+2!!!

Very well said! Especially the part about "playing what you can hum"!

Joe
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Robert Cates · From: Maine, USA

Jack

You can learn all the intros,endings ,major chord fills ,7th chord fills, licks and everything else that you can think of...but you have to have a road map in your head that directs you in your playing.
I think that once a pro players gets the structure of the song he or she is able to pull some of the phrases that he has stored in his head and play it in perfect time...This is also called experience.
You can memorize all the phrases in the world but if you don't know when or where to play them. .....you're licked.
Melody you can get from tablature or from finding it with your ears.
A good road map and experience will get you in a lot of places.

Bob

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

I would hafta say that the goal is to be always finding new stuff.

IMHO There are a lot of signature licks in the history of this instrument. In the 50's 60's and thru to today, each "new" country tune that has steel, has the opportunity to provide some new steel break that is unique, unlike any previous, and comes from the heart of the musician behind the picks.

Now, If I can just learn to pad and fill with the soul of Jimmy Day, I can die and go to heaven... Cool

Joe A. Camacho · Posted 30 Jan 2009 9:22 am

Wow what a great thread.

Jack Mattison · From: North Bend, Wa

Thanks guys for all the responce. It gives me alot to think about, and work on. I really love learning this instrument and it is coming along, thanks to alot of the info I get from you guys on this forum. Thanks again............ Jack<><
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Delvin Morgan · From: Lindstrom, Minnesota, USA

Larry Bell wrote, [/quote]"create an interesting countermelody."

I am going to play dumb here (not to hard to do Oh Well

).Can you explain "countermelody?

Joe Gretz · From: Washington, DC, USA

To understand how a counter melody works, first look at "regular" melody. Smile

A melody is a section of musical information. It can be long or short, simple or complex. It is like a sentence in the English language, but made of notes instead of words. From the first note to the last, there is what we call "melodic motion", which means that the notes are either going up in pitch (higher), or they are going down in pitch (lower). A counter melody is simply another melodic idea that moves differently than the original motif.

Example: A melodic line that moves up when the original melody moves down (or vice versa) is an easy to understand version of a counter melodic idea.

You can also consider "Rounds" to be counter melodic. For those unfamiliar, an example of a Round is "Row Row Row Your Boat"...when one person starts it, and then another person (or persons) jump in later.

You could also take the original melody and play it backwards. There are others too.

Look into "Counterpoint" and or "Theme and Variation" for more information on the topic. It's fascinating stuff! Armed with a few simple concepts, you can easily generate an exponential number of useful melodic ideas.

I hope I've explained this well!!! Smile

I'm sure others will chime in too.

Good Luck!!!

Joe
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Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

How does counter melody compare to "harmony"? Would the Mitch Miller tunes be also counter melodious? Or a barbershop quartet?
You stated that "counterpoint" is just one example.
Just tryin' to get a handle on the concept. Thanks.

Joe Gretz · From: Washington, DC, USA

One thing that people who study music theory seem to do a LOT is argue about what "this" or "that" is or aint! Laughing

I've come to view theory and grammar in the same way. Sometimes it's important to adhere to "the rules" and other times its okay to use "slang". That is my little disclaimer for those who take this very serious subject TOO seriously! Laughing

Countermelody: A sequence of notes played simultaneously with a more prominent melody. Usually the countermelody performs a subordinate role, and is heard as a texture consisting of melody and accompaniment. So, YES harmony, like harmony vocal lines can be considered to be a sort of countermelody. Block harmony such as chordal accompaniment is a little different.

Counterpoint: The relationship between two or more voices that are INDEPENDENT in contour (the note going up and or down thing I mentioned before) and rhythm, and INTERDEPENDENT in harmony. "Species Counterpoint" breaks it down into five distinct "species" or groups. One interested in finding out more can find a great introduction on "Wikipedia" believe it or not! "Gradus ad Parnasum" by Fux was the "go to" text when I was in music school.

Also check out "Fugue", "Theme and Variation" and "Canon" for some interesting reading...and listening too of course! Smile

I hope this helps! I'd be happy to elaborate further, but I think that may be straying away from the spirit of the original post...therefore "requiring" a new thread...

Joe Smile

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Ned McIntosh · From: New South Wales, Australia

I'm not a pro player by any means, but I like to listen to a piece of music and hear what the steel-player did, then try to work it out, pretty much lick-for lick. This gives you a basic feel for how someone interpreted the piece of music as a finished work, and what he felt was required to add a little extra something to it. It's also a great way to build up "a bag of licks".

Once I have that down reasonably, I look for my own variations - possibly using different chord-grips, or inversions, or maybe up or down an octave. Pedals B and C together can get some haunting sounds in the minor chords, and coupled with a goodly dose of "bar shiver", especially above fret 12 (i.e. not too far South of "Hugheyland") they can be a good way of injecting raw emotion into the song, especially if it is a bit of an old country "tear-jerker".

Wide grips (3,5 and 10 or 3, 5 and 8 etc) are another way of giving a different sound to a familiar lick, if you want to play the full chord. Playing 2 of the three notes and leaving the remaining note to the imagination of the listeners is useful too. Jeff Newman used to say "the band will swallow you up", and playing something different will help you "stand out from the noise".

An even better method, well for me at least, is to listen to a ballad which has no steel in it at all, then imagine how I would add steel to it, and where I would add it. As others have suggested, try to hum a steel part to it. Now you reach into your bag of licks and try some of those Lloyd Green licks you learned a week ago, or the John Hughey stuff you've been working on lately...or whomever your sources of inspiration are. Maybe it works great, maybe it's a total crock. Point is, you are now experimenting with your own sound, modifying it to suit the music.

Something to be aware of is backing up vocalists requires you to be very careful you don't over-power the voice. If the voice is carying the melody (as it ususally does) then try playing the 3 and 5 notes to accompany it, allowing the voice to supply the 1 note of the chord - the melody itself. Let the vocalist do the work, you just add the "jewellery" behind the voice to give the music a little extra sparkle when it is needed. And know above all, when not to play anything, not even your latest, hottest lick, if it doesn't fit, isn't needed and doesn't contribute a thing to the music as a whole. Think of the steel as spice...a little can go a long way if you use it just right. Too much spoils the dish completely!

Something else I realised very early on in my time behind the steel is female vocalists require a different backup to male vocalists...if the lady has an exceptional voice, some delicate harmonics, picked with no volume pedal, then swelled in and back out before the next harmonic is picked, can be very effective. A powerful male voice can be quite different, and behind it you can often let rip with your fattest, richest and most "growly" licks - again remembering that less is more and the steel speaks with greatest authority when it hasn't been heard for a few bars. Being too busy in backup is a real trap for young players - and some of us not-so-young ones as well.

We should be, first and foremost, good and true servants of the music. Several very experienced players have pointed out that we tend to concentrate on playing steel-guitar for the sake of playing steel-guitar, when we really should be concentrating on playing what the music needs. I seem to recall Sneaky Pete Kleinow expressed it more or less in precisely those terms, and he was absolutely right.

Don't know if this is quite what the originating post was looking for, but if it gives an idea or two it has fulfilled a purpose.
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The steel guitar is a hard mistress. She will obsess you, bemuse and bewitch you. She will dash your hopes on what seems to be whim, only to tease you into renewing the relationship once more so she can do it to you all over again...and yet, if you somehow manage to touch her in that certain magic way, she will yield up a sound which has so much soul, raw emotion and heartfelt depth to it that she will pierce you to the very core of your being.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

Playing 5/6 nights a week, mostly in house bands, I would have gotten bored silly, and lost interest if I had to play every song the same way every night. Much prefer flying by the seat of my pants. I play what I feel at the moment. Luckily, I had a band that allowed me to do that. Sure, if there was a "real signature lick" I would play it, otherwise, look out!

Charles Curtis · Posted 1 Feb 2009 6:28 am

IMO, a major factor is practicing and knowing the psg. I have dreamed about a lick, then I woke and went and played it with no problem. The info out here now can really help anyone, IMO thanks to guys like Buddy, Doug, Dave Hartley and others too numerous for me to name here. Thank God for Bob and this Forum.

Joe Gretz · From: Washington, DC, USA

SING IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS!!! Smile

First: John said, "If there was a signature lick I'd play it." VERY IMPORTANT!!! I don't know about YOU, but I sure aint better than Lloyd Green or Buddy Charleton (to name two)! Cool

Some phrases ARE INTEGRAL to the song, and should not be messed with. This gets back to the true heart of what the OP asked in the first place.

Second: Ned said, "Be good and true servants of the music". THANK YOU NED!!! Everything else you posted was great too! To paraphrase Clintons' response back near the top, "This is true of just about any instrument you can think of, not just steel!"

Golly, I LOVE this forum! Very Happy

Joe
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Dattebayo!!!

Ronnie Boettcher · From: Brunswick Ohio, USA

All these guys are right on with your question. I just want to add something. If you know the song, you can do your fills, intro's, endings, and breaks. If your playing and a song is requested, or a performer is asked to do a few, and you have no clue what the song is, Let someone else do the intro. Then as you feel the song out, just wing it. Put some notes into it, fake what you feel will add to the song, and everyone will be happy. There is nothing written that says you have to follow the original song note for note. Create, and enjoy.
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