Black box question

Jerry Scoope · From: Denver,Colorado, USA

I know this'll start a fire fight so here goes. Which sustain box Lil Izzy, Sarno, or
Goodrich. I am using a RP Mullen, Telonics PUs, Hilton pedal, Peavey Nashville 112.
Please help I have no idea
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MSA Classic XL Mullen RP D-10
Ampeg Gemini I amp Peavey Vegas 400

www.GospelTrailMinistry.org

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

If you would like a little warmer, tube sound, introduced, the Sarno SGBB before the VP should do the trick. I don't think the other buffers you mention will make much of a difference in your already quite excellent set-up - your Hilton is buffered.

Of course, I "cheat" when it comes to buffers, as I use the Boss LMB-3 (lightly set) as first stage to warm up the tone, followed by a passive, low-ohm, VP.

Lane Gray · From: Topeka, KS

What are you trying to do/get?
As Georg points out, your Hilton already has a buffer in it.
The Black Box has the Vari-Z which acts as a tone knob without actually bleeding highs to ground, and tubey goodness, but there's a cable between guitar and box.
The Freeloader has the Vari-Z, but no tubes. And there's a cable between guitar and box.
The Lil Izzy colors the tone in a pleasing way, and it comes straight from the guitar.
Are you unhappy with your tone, are you just toy-shopping, or are you buying stuff because you see people talking about them on the forum?
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2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects

Bruce Derr · From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA

None of those are "sustain" boxes. Their purpose is only to convert your pickup's output to a low-impedance signal, which protects the highs from being bled off by the capacitance in your cables, especially the long one to the amp. (The cable from your pickup to the volume pedal typically isn't long enough to have much capacitance so isn't usually a problem by itself.)

As has been mentioned, since you already have a low-impedance signal coming out of your Hilton pedal, none of these boxes will benefit your setup significantly in that regard.

So the only benefit would be from whatever subtle effect on tone that each box would bring. For some players that's enough of a reason to use them even if they have a buffered pedal.

I personally like the vari-Z feature on the Sarno Black Box and Freeloader. I have both of those units, but I tend to use the Freeloader most often because it's small, easy and doesn't require AC power. But I often don't use either of them, even though I use a simple pot pedal, and I doubt I'd ever use them if I used a buffered pedal like the Hilton. But that's just me.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Right, only the "pretty irregular buffer" I normally use - the Boss LMB-3 - affect sustain-characteristics.

I use the LMB-3 - set it - to emulate some "tube warmth", as I like the sound of tubes but nothing else about them. It has fixed input impedance - 1Mohm, and a simple tone control (which is good since I do not use any other form of equalizer in my sound chains).
Caveats: the LMB-3 draws more power than any battery-powered buffer, so is best used with a good external power-supply. Also, the LMB-3 is non-linear over the relevant frequency range, and it reveals "picking-weaknesses" and "sour tunings" more than regular buffers do. One can also be accused of using a "compressor" in the sound chain, even if it isn't set for that effect.

Roger Dillingham · From: Kentucky, USA

Hey Jerry, I am in no way an authority on this subject and I don't really understand all the reasons as to why those (3) you mentioned affect the sound the way they do....but,, I have used all three and if money is not in the equation, I would have to say go for the Steel Guitar Black Box. The Goodrich matchbox has some definite positive qualities, but if you can tame the resultant treble boost you will notice by using Mr. Craig Baker's L'il Izzy, that will improve your string separation and bring out a liveness that you didn't know existed within your pedal steel. I have both the SGBB and L'il Izzy now (have previously sold the Goodrich) and I can find only a few situations where the L'il Izzy doesn't work for me. I actually have a hard time NOT using the Izzy. My take on this dilemna is this: If you are not considering price I would go with the Black Box as you can use its enhancements in all situations and the tubey goodness comes through especially in front of a solid state amp. If money is a factor, I believe you can't do better than the L'il Izzy for its performance qualities but be prepared to use little or no treble or presence boosts as you will see an increase in the gain of those frequencies in particular when the pure signal from your pickup cuts through. As you can tell, I like them both, but for different reasons. Good luck on your decision and I hope this helps in some small way. Roger Smile

BTW, tone is very subjective so please keep what I have mentioned as just my personal, honest opinion.

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