Hilton Pedal

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

I would like some input on the Hilton and Goodrich volumn pedals. Once I bought a Hilton , about a year ago , I stopped using my Goodrich pedal.
A few days ago I just pluged in my Goodrich and found I had a lot more gain than with the Hilton.
I will say the Hilton has a better tone,to my ears anyway, . I just wonder if anyone has found this or do I have a problem pedal ?

Thanks
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Bill

Chuck Snider R.I.P. · From: West Virginia, USA - Morgantown, WV

From a technical/electronic aspect I can't help you. However, you might check the adjusting pots on the bottom side of the pedal. One is for tone, one is for volume, and a third for adjusting the volume off. You might go to the Hilton website, there is a link from the forum if you click on the "LINKS". On the Hilton website is the User guide for the pedal and it explains the different settings. If that doesn't help any, then you might touch base with Keith Hilton as to what should be done next. I bought a used pedal and found the tone and volume had been turned down a little.

-Chuck
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GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

For this discussion, Bill, I'm declaring that there are 3 versions of Hilton volume pedals (that I'm aware of):

V1: older, heavy, big heavy wall wart permanently wired to the pedal; has 3 controls: tone, off point, and volume.

V2: released maybe 2 years ago: lighter pedal, smaller & lighter & removable wall wart. Same 3 controls as V1.

V3: similar to V2, started coming out just a few months ago; same controls as V1 and V2, EXCEPT:

The latest V3 Hilton pedals have the volume knob covered with a plastic plug, or perhaps blocked AND the volume circuit removed altogether, I haven't opened mine up to check that yet.

So, Keith is setting the max volume himself, no option for the end user. And the output gain is about 65% of the full gain that V1 and V2 pedals had, at least to my ears, in pretty careful tests.

Keith is doing this, I believe, because many buyers didn't know how to properly use the pretty high gain of their pedals in their signal chains, so they'd get distortion and send the pedal back for unnecessary repair. Keith probably concluded that just disabling the volume control solved most users' problems.

I'd love input from anyone who has tried the new V3 pedals and can compare V3 to the older versions. Personally, I'm not too happy with the lack of volume control, they now have less gain than my Goodrich pedals (like Bill noticed), and the extra gain, which I call "punchiness", is what I liked about Hilton pedals in the first place. The overall tone and feel of the V3 pedals is still great, no changes there.

I'm sure Keith will chime in, maybe correct any errant assumptions I've made.

Keith, can having the volume knob enabled continue to be an option for those of us who rely on (or just want) high gain as in pedals of old?
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Mitch Adelman · From: Pennsylvania, USA

I have the old model of the Hilton and I had to lower the volume control by about 25% or I got distortion through the Black Box and 112 speaker.It drove me nuts until I lowered the blue knob. It sounded fine then.But a month or two ago I went back to my Goodrich and old match box since I want my George l pickup to be unhindered in the chain for its full output and potential from the steel. Why constrict the sound pipe right off the bat!. After three years of going back and forth and installing the Dunlop hot pot, I'm back to old school for the full bodied soulful tone I was used to. I know I'm in the minority but I feel there's something "unnatural and sterile" about the tone of the Hilton on my steel (even at full volume without any other devices)But the Hilton is a great pedal and you don't lose any high frequencies and has that crisp even sound many players better than I love. To each his or her own ears and steel setup!

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

John, you are correct on most of what you said in your post. There was a version before your V1. It had a removable power supply. The power supply was un-regulated 12 volt DC, and I regulated and filtered it inside the pedal. I disagree on one point you made John. I have set the output signal strenth of "EVERY" pedal that has left the shop--"STRONGER" than the output of an old pot pedal. If you don't have more volume than an old pot pedal with your Hilton Pedal, something is wrong with your pedal. When the Hilton pedals had 3 adjustments, I used to set the output of the pedals really hot, assuming people would read directions and turn down the "volume" adjustment if needed. The "volume" adjustment was really the signal output strengh control. I found out hardly anyone was reading the instructions. You are correct John, when you say I got some people who were getting distortion--simply because they refused to read any instructions, and knew little about controlling all the other expensive equipment they owned. That seemed to be the rule instead of the exception. To make the Hilton pedal more user friendly, I made the decision to eliminate the "volume" adjustment, and factory set the output.
I set the factory output--slightly stronger--then the output of an old pot pedal. Here is how I set the output of each Hilton pedal now at the factory. I have a sine wave generator set at 100 mili-amps feeding the input of the pedal. I then check the output of the pedal when it is wide open, and shoot for around 130 mili-amps. With an old pot pedal,it is impossible to get more output signal than the signal you put in. So if you put a 100 mili-amps in a old pot pedal, the maximum you can possibly get out is 100 mili-amps. With the Hilton pedal, I can set it at the factory where it gets more signal out than the signal input. Eliminating the "volume" adjustment has worked out great--WITHOUT A SINGLE COMPLAINT--out of several thousand pedals with the adjustment eliminated. If a person wants a "volume" adjustment on their pedal, I charge an additonal $10.00 to put one on, plus $12.00 return shipping. If a person wants more than 130 mili-amps output, with a 100 mili-amps input,---tell me exactly what mili-amp out put you want with a 100 amp input and I will make your pedal have that output exactly. Send the pedal to me along with $12.00 return shipping. Exactly what output would you like to have John?--Let me know in mili-amps with 100 mili-amp input? By the way, John, have you measured the output with electronic instruments, or are you just using your ear. I found out my ear would fool me and that is when I stopped relying on my ear and use electronic measuring instruments. But-- your ears are probably better than mine. My advise to those wanting a tremendous excessive amout of output over the input signal----FIRST--- you need to know how to control all the expensive stuff you have in your signal chain. Most of the users of these expensive signal processors do not know how to control this stuff. You may think you know how to control what you have in your signal chain, but most don't, when it comes to hookup methods, and input and output signal control on effect units. Far too many think they are experts------I try to never quit learning, and feel that I am dumb and stupid on many occasions. I want to say one other thing; The electronics and end sound quality has never changed from when I first started building pedals 14 years ago. If you bought a pedal 14 years ago, you have the same sound circuit that goes in the 2009 pedals. I hope this information helps.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Good to hear from you Donny. I will explain "WHY". Donny, I respect your opoinion. Donny, 14 years ago when I started making pedals I did set the output at unity gain. I found that every player felt cheated unless the pedal put out slightly more than unity gain. If I made the output unity gain the player would inevitibly "IMAGINE" that the pedal was putting out less gain than an old pot pedal. Noting about my pedal has ever been guess work, everthing has come from feedback-over many years-- from cream of the crop players using my pedal--People like John Hughey, Hal Rugg, Dicky Overby, Herby Wallace, Norm Hamlet, Doug Jernigan, Bobbe Seymour, Fred Justice,Billy Cooper, Terry Bethel----I could go on and on with hundreds more of these famous cream of the crop players and shows using my pedal. Donny, I make pedals like these important cream of the crop players and shows want. They don't want a unity gain pedal. With that said--I RESPECT your opinion, as I know you are a really smart electronic person and accomplished player. I also really respect a guy like Mitch Adelman. Steel guitar and music is about having fun. Use what equipment sounds good to your ear. Mitch likes the sound of an old pot pedal, and I think that is great, I respect that. I advise using what sounds best to you, and above all have fun. Donny, I am willing to set anyone's pedal at unity gain, if they want that. Donny if you want unity gain, send your pedal to me and I will set it at sine wave 100 mili volts in and 100 mili volts out. Include $12.00 return shipping and I will do the coversion free.
If I am not mistaken, I remember a John McClug working for Tom Bradshaw in years past. John, are you that same person? Very Happy

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Hey Keith, I knew you'd be here with great info and feedback, thanks!

You're right, I am the John McClung who was art & advertising director for the much missed "Steel Guitarist Magazine" that Tom Bradshaw published in the early 1980's. That's about it as far as my claims to fame, ha!

I'm also your LA Hilton dealer, though I really only sell to my steel students. I'm the one with very fine hearing, you're correct on that (see next paragraph).

The 2 replacement pedals you sent me a short while ago were both perfect with the 2 modifications I asked for: felt pad to minimize the metal clank when the pedal is slammed full on; and the shrink tubing to eliminate the minor noise from the internal spring. Both mods made the pedal as quiet as Goodrich pedals. I took my pedals to the SWSGA show, compared those aspects to a couple Fred Justice had, and my versions were the winner in the Quiet contest.

But the output of the volume control capped models (what I call V3) is significantly less than the V2 pedal I received about 2 years ago. I went straight from guitar to pedal to amp, didn't even use my rack gear, and tested over and over. I could floor the V3 pedals (without the control) and comfortably listen; the V2 pedal I couldn't floor without doing hearing damage.

So you think there is something amiss with my newer V3 pedals?

I'll retest to make sure my testing is valid. I know it's not scientific, but the volume difference was quite apparent. I'll compare again to a couple of Goodrich pedals, too, and double check my facts in that regard.
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Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

John,let me make it little more understandable for you. The pedals that have 3 controls had their output set "much" hotter, because you could reduce signal strength with the volume control adjustment.
Current pedals with only 2 adjustment controls don't have the volume control adjustment, and are factory set with less output than the pedals with the volume control. Either of these two versions of the Hilton pedal have more output than a old pot pedal. Either version has more output than you will ever need. To make sure you understand, John, your V2 pedal should have more output than your V3 pedal. Your V2 pedal has an adjustment to turn down any excess signal. Your V3 pedal is set at the factory at a pre determined reasonable strong output, so there is no need to adjust it down. Hope this information helps. By the way, I wish Tom Bradshaw and you were still producing the magazine. That was the best steel guitar magazine ever produced. Just my opinion.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Totally agree with you on the magazine, Keith; no matter how I beg and plead with Tom to publish it again, he feels there's so much info available online and on the Forum, there's no need for a paper product. Guess I reluctantly agree with that. Thanks for the compliments, it was a very enjoyable period of my life.

I understand what you're saying. I'll check again the output of V3 to the Goodriches.

The diminished volume is an issue with my old Webbs, they're very hissy, so to get equivalent volume of my V2 pedal with the newer V3, I have to turn the amp volume way up, and then the hiss is intolerable. Both Webbs need a visit to Ken Fox. I'll try the V3 with my NV400, too, see if that volume level seems OK with a cleaner amp.

So many factors! No wonder you took away the volume knob!

Whoa!

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Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

I agree with Keith!

I bought a Hilton pedal and noticed a touch of distortion at higher volumes.......so I decided to think outside the box and read the enclosed manual.

After quick downward tweak of the volume trim pot the problem was solved.

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · From: Sweden

The customer in the know may benefit from numerous
variables,but the producer,in order to stay in busi-
ness,is half destined to settle for a user-friendly
approach,"business optimizing",and I,for one,fell
right in with my new Hilton ME262-B.McUtsi

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