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Topic: tuning pedals after restringing. |
Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 8:06 am |
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I put the new strings on the old Marlen. First time I have ever changed strings. Now, the sixth string, the G#, when stepping on the B pedal, is way to high in pitch. I thought it was a nut on the end of the rod without my glasses. I went to loosen it and see that it is a collar with a set screw. What do I do? Do I lossen the collar and use one of the plastic pieces I see covering the other rods to adjust it? Do I adjust it then lock the set screw? Give a man a hand here.
Thanx All.
Jerry |
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Earnest Bovine
From:
Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 9:25 am
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| Maybe the easiest solution is to find a string like the old one and put it on the guitar. |
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chris ivey
From:
california (deceased)
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 9:28 am
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| one string on the 6th string could be way fatter than the other and one may be wound and the other not. |
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Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 10:21 am
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| It shouldn't matter what string I put on as long as I can tune it. The diameter is not that different, I just have to tune it, have to learn sometimes anyway. |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 12 Jan 2009 11:25 am
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yep , all them strings look the same to me too !
What note is the string tuned to and what note does it go to after you press the pedal?
did any one tell you about solder? 
I should recant the solder comment.. someone might take it seriously. Right Bobbe?
Last edited by Bo Borland on 13 Jan 2009 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andy Sandoval
From:
Bakersfield, California, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 12:42 pm
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| Jerry, did you by chance replace a plain 6th with a wound 6th? If you did, you have to adjust the rod throw length to compensate for the difference between the plain and the wound string. |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 1:54 pm
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| I think the question here is simply "what is the procedure for tuning the changes on an old Marlen?". I'm not familiar with those particular guitars, but hopefully someone who is can answer the question. Jerry, if you changed the heading to "Need Help Tuning Old Marlen" or something like that I bet you would attract the kind of help you are looking for. |
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Kevin Hatton
From:
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 5:26 pm
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| Ricky Davis knows. |
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Gary Preston
From:
Columbus, Ohio, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 6:57 pm
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| I think you asked if you turn the nylon tuning part right ? Yes that is what you turn and not anything else if i understood you right . Check to see which changer is moving when you press down the ''b'' pedal and you can see the one you need to tune . Again if i understood your question right ! |
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Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 10:51 pm
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| Gary Preston wrote: |
| I think you asked if you turn the nylon tuning part right ? Yes that is what you turn and not anything else if i understood you right . Check to see which changer is moving when you press down the ''b'' pedal and you can see the one you need to tune . Again if i understood your question right ! |
I think you have it correct. Once again the string is close enough. I have played guitar for 43 years and know the difference between round wound and flat wound.
I have been a machinist for 35 years, I will just figure it out on my own.
Actually I got so mad at being deemed an idiot I shut the site down for a day.  |
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Eric West
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 11:01 pm
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Jerry. I feel your pain.
Whatever you have to do, a new string usually does return higher than one that's been worked for a while.
Try pulling it, stretching it, and working the dogshitout of it with the pedal. If it needs some, decipher what it takes to shange it a bit. IF it's a PITA to get the nut on the end of the rod to cooperate, you might get some satisfaction at the "stop" under the guitar, but it adjusts the octave too..
New strings typically do raise a little higher and lower a little lower when first strung. Also when cold due to the tensile things.. Usually it's just a matter of warming them up and working them a little.
EJL |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 13 Jan 2009 11:43 pm
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| Quote: |
| It shouldn't matter what string I put on as long as I can tune it. The diameter is not that different, I just have to tune it, have to learn sometimes anyway. |
I dunno. String type and gauge can make a significant difference in pitch change per unit of string pull. I have made what I thought were small changes like this and found I had to significantly change the leverages to make the pull work properly again.
Before I started monkeying around with the mechanics of a guitar that was working perfectly before a string change, I would want to make sure I had the same exact gauge and type of string on there. The 6th string G# is the precise string where there is a lot of variability. Some people use plains of gauge .020-.022, and others use wound strings of gauge .021-.024, and there may be variations in the core diameter of the wounds.
These may seem like small differences, but they can make a big difference in the pitch change per unit of string pull. Since you are saying that the new string pulls a lot higher than the old string, the first thing I would suspect is that you went from a wound 6th to a plain 6th. Maybe that isn't it, but do you know that? Did you keep the old string, or pay attention to what you pulled off?
Myself - if I really like the way a guitar plays, I wouldn't pull a string - especially a 6th string - off a guitar without measuring the gauge, and if a wound string, both the wound string and core diameter, so I know how to get back if I want to.
Of course, something could have changed on the guitar also. But I'd want to rule out the string before I made that assumption.
I mean no offense - you did put this scenario out there and I think people are genuinely trying to help. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 14 Jan 2009 1:43 am
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I’ve got an old Marlen D10 and it’s a pull/release. You just have to flip it upside down and figure out how it works.
It’s not rocket science. This PSG is primitive mechanics.
There are limits however on the adjustments, unless you make additions to the mechanics. These limits may prevent getting some strings perfect. An example the 4th string on the E9 that has to lower a ½ tone and raise a ½ tone with knee levers and raise a whole tone with a pedal. I suspicion that this is why some of the older PSG don't have a knee lever that lowers the 4th string. |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2009 2:07 am
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to change most pedal tunings you use the nylon tuners at the changer. I assume the marlin has those, tho some guitars have alen keys. As far as string gauges go it makes a huge difference as to how much pedal travel is required to achieve a certain pitch. if your bending them with your fingers on a 6 string you will notice its harder or easier depending on the string type/gauge. A thicker string may not need as much travel to achieve a certain pitch change. the nuts at the changer determine the amount of travel allowed. if its to sharp after applying pedal then the travel needs to be limited by whatever type of regulator your guitar has. the changers that move on the end when the pedals are employed are usually capped with nylon bolt type things. it is these that are tuned.
Procedure that I use
1 tune strings with no pedels/levers engaged
2 apply pedals and adjust the nylon(or whatever type you got)
3 release the pedals and recheck the strings without levers/peds
4 repeat 2 and 3 till its where you like
google the Jeff Newman tuning methods to find a good starting tutorial on the process and recommended pitches
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Bo Borland
From:
South Jersey -
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Posted 14 Jan 2009 4:40 am
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If you would change from extra light gauge to heavys on your Telly you should expect to make other adjustments to your guitar besides tuning them up.
Similarly, you should expect to do the same on your pedal steel. |
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David Collins
From:
Madison, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2009 4:45 am
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Jerry,
First off, I DO NOT think that you're an idiot! I have a very old marlen and thay can be a bit of a bear to tune, especially if string gauges are not identical to those that were replaced.
Marlen did go through several evolutions in the tuning methods and mechanics in the early years.
IF you can post pictures of the underside and top side of the changer, I can most likely help you with the tuning method for your particular guitar.
Feel free to e-mail me if you don't want to post pics.
David
_________________
David Collins
www.chjoyce.com |
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Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 14 Jan 2009 8:15 am
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| Steve Norman wrote: |
to change most pedal tunings you use the nylon tuners at the changer. I assume the marlin has those, tho some guitars have alen keys. As far as string gauges go it makes a huge difference as to how much pedal travel is required to achieve a certain pitch. if your bending them with your fingers on a 6 string you will notice its harder or easier depending on the string type/gauge. A thicker string may not need as much travel to achieve a certain pitch change. the nuts at the changer determine the amount of travel allowed. if its to sharp after applying pedal then the travel needs to be limited by whatever type of regulator your guitar has. the changers that move on the end when the pedals are employed are usually capped with nylon bolt type things. it is these that are tuned.
Procedure that I use
1 tune strings with no pedels/levers engaged
2 apply pedals and adjust the nylon(or whatever type you got)
3 release the pedals and recheck the strings without levers/peds
4 repeat 2 and 3 till its where you like
google the Jeff Newman tuning methods to find a good starting tutorial on the process and recommended pitches
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That is what she looks like. The string I took off was not round wound and was .021. The string I replaced it with is not round wound and is .022.
I measured the one I took off but did not measure the
one I put on. I took SIT's word for it that it was .022. I stretched all the strings out after putting them on.
As for the idiot part, I was only kidding. Everyone here has been a gentlemen since I came on board.
I loosened the collar and the B pedal no longer raises the string, now I have to find the plastic pieces that were sent to me with the guitar so I can adjust it.
But I did shut the site down  |
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Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 14 Jan 2009 9:04 am
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OK, done. All it was, was loosening the set screw on the collar and adjusting the collar and locking it back down. Now I can practice on this contraption again.
Thanx All. |
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Steve Norman
From:
Seattle Washington, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2009 10:12 am
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sorry bout that, I got marlin and mullen mixed up (pic is of a mullen) they both start with m right? nice work on the fix!
_________________
GFI D10, Fender Steel King, Hilton Vpedal,BoBro, National D dobro, Marrs RGS |
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Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 16 Jan 2009 9:40 am
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I find that I am not quite in tune. Very close but no cigar. Now I have to see if there is any way to fine tune it without loosening the collar. If not, and I
have to loosen the collar everytime this could take forever! I am still not sure what the plastic pieces are on the ends of the linkages for. On the particular linkage I am working with there is no plastic "wrench" on it. Darn I wish I knew all the names for this stuff. I went to put one on thinking its screws on over the threads but it didn't want to go on. They were sent to me along with the guitar when I bought it. I can't tell if the other ones that are on the other linkages are threaded on or a slight press fit? What I was wondering is if you loosen the collar with the plastic "wrench" on it, it seems like the wrench will prevent it from sliding freely, and then you can use the wrench as a fine tuner?
Thanx everyone. |
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Don Brown, Sr.
From:
New Jersey
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Posted 16 Jan 2009 11:26 am
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Jerry, Take a picture with the guitar upside down, along with a picture of the end plate where your nylons are. Then someone would be able to better tell you how to do it the correct way.
If it has Nylons on the endplate, that's where you'd do adjusting in one form or another.
On some steels, you'd tune normal open at the keyhead. then you'd tune a pedal down at the same keyhead, and let off your pedal and tune the open at the end plate.
Others, you tune normal open at the keyhead, then all of the raises and lowers at the end plate.
Still others had to also be tuned from the above, plus one or two from the undercarriage.
Regardless, if you were sent new nylons, there are no threads in them. You simply start them on by pushing and screwing them, as they make their own threads. They have to be fairly tight, or else they'd be turning and going out of tune a little at a time.
The collars are for getting the setup close to where it has to be, in order to be tuned.
Hope that helps, but you need to show folks a picture of exactly what you have there. As you know, close is not good enough.
Don |
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Rick Winfield
From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
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Posted 16 Jan 2009 2:06 pm Marlen
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Jerry check yout eMail on Tuning.
also important with that axe, is the string gauges. It is set up for the "Ricky Davis Nickel" strings for both E9 and C6 necks. They are available on the forum, and you can check the gauges there also.
Rick |
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Jerry Dragon
From:
Gate City Va.
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Posted 16 Jan 2009 11:04 pm
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OK, I got it now, thanx all, I think I can get her where I want her. Rick, I have to go with the strings I put on, and at least I am learning the linkage and how to adjust and maybe some onther thinks.
Listening to Rusty Young right now on "Deliverin".
I want to cut his hands off. |
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