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Topic: What is the purpose of the cover over the bridge on resos... |
Blake Wilson
From:
Boulder CO, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 12:10 pm |
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...or on any guitar, for that matter? I've recently been playing more bottleneck on my steel bodied reso, and am frustrated that I'm unable to mute properly. Should I cut the cover off (this is a cheapie) or buy a new cover plate?
Oh, and Happy New Year!
Regards,
Blake |
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AJ Azure
From:
Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 12:23 pm
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or learn how to mute with your left hand AND right hand just not where you're used to 
hacking away at your instrument shouldn't be the first solution to solving a technique issue |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 12:40 pm
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Blake,
I don't see what it would hurt on a regular guitar, but on a reso, be it a spider bridge, or biscuit, you sure don't want any downward pressure.
On a spider bridge it would only take a few ounces to ruin a cone, they are very thin spun aluminum peices. A few more ounces would snap a leg off of the cast aluminum spider. These guitars have very delicate internals.
Go to the Stew-Mac site and you can see the parts, and they also have set-up instructions.
Happy New Year right back!
_________________
John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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Blake Wilson
From:
Boulder CO, USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 12:44 pm
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John: But of course that's the reason...nice to know a 1/2 thought-out question gets a rational response! Thanks, guys. I will proceed with caution and put the hacksaw away...although who knows what will happen as the evening progresses!
Blake |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 1:34 pm
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I don't buy the downward pressure argument--the cone and spider are not quite that delicate, although less pressure does allow the cone to vibrate more freely.
Sometimes a palm rest is just a palm rest. 
On reso the base position is with your palm ahead of the rest--that's where the best tone is. I anchor my palm to the rest for fast bluegrass stuff, but otherwise it floats somewhere between the rest and the edge of the cover plate. |
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Steve Branscom
From:
Pacific NW
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 4:09 pm
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Tim Scheerhorn has coverplates with a removeable palm rest. So, you could take your hacksaw and do the work as long as you realize there's no palm rest anymore.
_________________
Steve |
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John Drury
From:
Gallatin, Tn USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 6:21 pm
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| Lynn Oliver wrote: |
I don't buy the downward pressure argument--the cone and spider are not quite that delicate, although less pressure does allow the cone to vibrate more freely.
Sometimes a palm rest is just a palm rest.
On reso the base position is with your palm ahead of the rest--that's where the best tone is. I anchor my palm to the rest for fast bluegrass stuff, but otherwise it floats somewhere between the rest and the edge of the cover plate. |
Turn your tension screw just two full turns, then post your results here.
_________________
John Drury
NTSGA #3
"Practice cures most tone issues" ~ John Suhr |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 8:04 pm
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| The bridge tension screw adjustment is critical. Even if resting your hand on it didn't damage the cone, it would mess with the critical adjustment, possibly causing a change in tone or the dreaded rattles. But I don't see the problem. Just move your picking hand ahead of the bridge guard and palm block all you want. |
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Lynn Oliver
From:
Redmond, Washington USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 31 Dec 2008 8:59 pm
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[quote="John Drury"]
| Lynn Oliver wrote: |
| Turn your tension screw just two full turns, then post your results here. |
If you mean two turns after contact, that's too much--I can tell you right now it would hurt the sound. Most people start with about 3/4 turn and make only small adjustments from there. As David says, the adjustment is critical to the tone and volume.
In any case, you can press down pretty hard on the strings without hurting anything, certainly more than a few ounces. The spider is relatively sturdy, and it is the spider that takes nearly all of the loading.
You can palm damp without undue concern. |
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Kevin Brown
From:
England
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Posted 1 Jan 2009 1:36 am
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| most new national single cone resos have removable saddle covers after so many complaints about the non-mutable properties of the earlier versions, The Mike Dowling inspired Trovador model has this facility, the covers are removed by 4 small allen keys. |
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin
From:
Sweden
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Posted 1 Jan 2009 3:30 am Dobro adjustment...
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The adjustment screw should only be tightened until
the buzz emanating from the screw/cone fixture
stops ; if You keep tightening it the tone gets
stiff and,eventually,the cone gets damaged ; if it
still buzzes after proper adjustment You check for
other problem spots:insufficient spider leg-cone
contact,loose parts & fittings etc ; but,most
Dobros will buzz a bit from time to time,so...no
stetoscope needed...McUtsi |
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Mark Deffenbaugh
From:
NYC
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Posted 1 Jan 2009 10:04 am
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I cut the palm rest off my dobro about six months of hard playing ago. No ill effects, and I love the increased timbral possibilities.
There may be some confusion in this thread between what steel players usually mean by "palm muting" and what guitar players usually mean by it. In the latter sense, it's the technique of placing the fleshy part of the palm on the bridge to achieve a partially muted sound when the string is struck (as in the classic Merle Travis alternating bass). You just can't get this sound with a standard dobro coverplate. |
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Blake Wilson
From:
Boulder CO, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 8:12 am
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The guitar I'd like to mod (cut off the palm rest/bridge cover) has a biscuit bridge, not a spider. Any thoughts whether this type of bridge shouldn't be "touched", moreso than a spider bridge?
Thanks,
Blake |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 8:18 am
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================================
What is the purpose of the cover over the bridge on resos...
===================================================
I think you need them to play......cover tunes..... |
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Ulric Utsi-Åhlin
From:
Sweden
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 8:37 am Cover plate...
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Good one,Howard...seriously,though,if "The Complete
Works Of William Shakespeare" should slip off the
shelf to land on Your Dobro,mid-cone-ish,the cover
would save the situation,so...it does serve a pur-
pose ; the other reason for its existence is "good
looks"...in the old days bridge assemblies,vibrato
fittings & even tuner posts were considered un-sightly ; there are some vintage electrics sporting
nickel-plated tube-shaped covers to keep those
tuners well hidden...McUtsi |
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Jim Konrad
From:
The Great Black Swamp USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 9:32 am
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| Kevin Brown wrote: |
| most new national single cone resos have removable saddle covers after so many complaints about the non-mutable properties of the earlier versions..... |
I think it was done more to help with set up of said guitar. NOT for muting purposes. The builders know better than that!!
The cones for a spider and a biscuit are both very thin. They are tough for the most part, but a two year old kid could accidentally crush your cone just by playfully slapping on the bridge, once.
If you do remove your support I would make another, smaller one that rests back further to allow for muting if you must. The hand rest protects it in the case also. There is already a clearance problem in our cases. Another guitar on top of your case could be enough to crush the cone.
I would say 9 out of ten guys put their hand rest back on after they crush a cone. It is not "if" but "when".
Best of luck!!! |
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Kevin Brown
From:
England
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 1:21 pm
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| Thanks Jim, I take your point, in fact I think your solution is a very practical one that would provide both protection and muting possibilies, well spoken , I stand corrected ! |
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Jim Konrad
From:
The Great Black Swamp USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 1:35 pm
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This looks good?
This was originally posted by Michael Lee Allen
Thanks MLA!!
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Jim Konrad
From:
The Great Black Swamp USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 1:43 pm
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| The cones are much like an egg shell. They are very strong in some ways and very weak in others. Once deformed they can almost never be the same. Even the smallest dent can cause a rattle or buzz. Then you need to fork over some cash for a new cone. The worst part could be trying to set it back up without rattles. |
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Mark Deffenbaugh
From:
NYC
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Posted 2 Jan 2009 3:58 pm
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| Jim Konrad wrote: |
If you do remove your support I would make another, smaller one that rests back further to allow for muting if you must. |
This is a great idea - thanks.
Or maybe a cover that goes on when you want to move the guitar, and comes off when you want to play it. |
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Greg Booth
From:
Anchorage, AK, USA
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Posted 4 Jan 2009 11:21 am going strapless
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I had Tim Scheerhorn modify a cover plate for me over a year ago and I'm happy to be rid of the palm rest. It always felt like an obstacle under my hand and I noticed in video that when I come to a passage where I palm block I have to move my hand forward slightly from my normal position. It's not a big deal to do this, but for anyone wanting to palm the bridge for Travis picking technique the palm rest is in the way. I have experienced no problems with the guitar whatsoever and plan to leave the hand rest off my new guitar when Tim delivers it later this month.
_________________
Greg
Kathy Kallick Band
www.youtube.com/user/aksliderdobro |
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Blake Wilson
From:
Boulder CO, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 1:32 pm
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I took the plunge and pried the palm rest off the cover plate. It wasn't difficult in that the rest was welded on in just a couple places. It doesn't look too pretty but I'm not worried about that. The guitar is a cheapo Fender Steel Bodied National-type copy...a round neck. It's a heck of a lot easier to play it Spanish-style with a bottleneck slide now; I haven't tried it yet on my lap with the nut raiser but I'm guessing it's going to play fine.
As a relative newbie to resonator guitars, I'm a little perplexed by comments suggesting that typical muting behavior might crush a cone. Cones obviously have to withstand hundreds of pound of pressure already; I can't imagine that the relatively few pounds of pressure from muting would cause it to collapse (famous last words, eh?).
Thanks for all the responses to this topic.
Blake |
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Jim Konrad
From:
The Great Black Swamp USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 4:56 pm
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| Blake Wilson wrote: |
| comments suggesting that typical muting behavior might crush a cone |
Typical muting might not crush the cone......
| Blake Wilson wrote: |
| Cones obviously have to withstand hundreds of pound of pressure already |
I bet it is more like 6-8 lbs (not an expert??). And they re already being pushed to the limit.
Someone else might chime in that builds them? |
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Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 7:49 pm String Tension
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I'm not a builder, but this info is easy enough to come by. For example, D'Addario lists the string tensions on their packages. I'm looking at a package of EJ42 Phosphor Bronze/Resophonic Guitar strings. Tensions are given a 24-5/8" scale length. To summarize (the info is also given in metric):
<tt>
.016" 30.7 lbs
.018" 27.5 lbs
.026" 32.9 lbs
.035" 34.3 lbs
.045" 40.0 lbs
.056" 38.3 lbs
</tt>
That's a total of 203.7 pounds of tension. The average tension of one string is 33.95 pounds. Given those numbers, I also can't imagine that palm muting could damage the cone. To address the original topic, personally, I think that I wouldn't remove the bridge cover unless it was an easy on/easy off. I'd be afraid of an accidental impact.
_________________
"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 5 Jan 2009 8:34 pm
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| The lbs. for string tension are what either end of the strings feels, and not what the bridge feels. The bridge feels a small fraction of that as a sideways vector. In spite of that 34 lbs. per string of tension, it only takes a small pressure to push one of those strings sideways, and that is all the bridge is doing. |
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