Can Cracks on Top of a D-10 Cabinet, be Repaired?

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Who would be one of the best at repairing a couple of cracks in the top of a lacquered cabinet?

I honestly have no idea if they can be repaired or not. The birdseye maple has two cracks (all the way through) on the C6 side of the cabinet top. One at each end. about 4 inches in length. And yes, they go all the way through.

It happened from an old injury, many years ago. The reason it's still apart from the tear down last year. It had been stressed from a very heavy man falling dead on top of it.

Thanks,
Don

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

what about total disassembly, dowels or bisquits and glue?

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Hey Bo,

It's totally apart now. I'm not really into wood working. I've been told there are many ways to stop it from cracking farther.

I called George to get some ideas, knowing that he no longer works on them, or it would be no problem whatsoever. He is a master craftsman.

I have several choices, I guess? I could drill through with a small long bit and then put a bolt through, since it is 3/4" birdseye maple, and beings it's on the C6 portion, there is enough sticking up from the underside, to get a nut and washer on the bolt. (that wasn't George's idea) The problem with doing that is, I'd have to drill through the laminate, and I don't want to do that.

I guess I could also get a furniture clamp, and tighten it up and then bolt in a piece of 1/4 in flat aluminum across the cracks on the underside.

I was wondering on the line of beveling the wood, and then using epoxy in the beveled area. But decided against doing that.

Hel said to put it back together, string her up and put her back in her case where she can rest in peace, for all the many, many years she's put in.

PS: I didn't know if she was talking about her or the G.E.S... Very Happy

Note Added: When you see the under side, how she's reinforced, you'll see why I said there never was any cabinet drop whatsoever. She doesn't have full end castings. Had she, this probably wouldn't have even happened. But also, Hel reminded me of the time, I climbed over the top of my steel, and flew over a railing during a fight that broke out on the dance floor, to get some "Real Hot Licks" In. Embarassed

She'll have to tell ya the rest of that story.. "Ah! The good ol days.." Very Happy

Don

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

I would guess a cabinet maker's ideas would be better than a luthiers opinion in this case.
I built a double neck telly and pbass out of 2 fenders a while back. I drilled and doweled it then finshed it. It looked very professional but I regret cutting up two good guitars and it weighed a ton.

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Hey, as long as the outcome was what you were after, that's all the counts. I'll bet she is fairly heavy. Smile

Since I won't be playing her out anyway, it's probably not really, all that important. But, then too, I don't want her cracking all the way down, if it can be avoided. Because she really is one great playing and sounding steel.

The wood is so dry, it definitely adds to her qualities. Tap on her belly and she's like an old violin, she actually sounds out.

Thanks Bo for the suggestions.

Don

Skip Ellis · From: Bradenton, Fl USA

Don, the modern glues (original Titebond and West Systems epoxy) will make repairs stronger than the wood. If you drill a small (1/16") hole at the end of the crack to stop it from going any further (you can patch it with a dowel to be almost invisible)then glue and clamp with Titebond, it should last forever. Be sure you work the glue into the crack really well and do not, I repeat DO NOT use Titebond II or III only the original yellow woodworkers' glue. It should make the ol' girl good to go for another 50 years.

Skip
_________________
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Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Hey Skip, thanks a lot for the tip on that brand of glue..

I don't usually have too much confidence in glues, since Super Glue, I've never found holds much of anything, other than your fingers and skin together. Very Happy

Thanks again, I'm considering any and all reco's, as to how best, attempt it.

Don

Paul Norman · From: Washington, North Carolina, USA

Don, I PM-d you my email to discuss the tape to cd
method. Please EMail Me.

Tommy Young · From: Ethelsville Alabama

DON;;I would use gorilla glue it has worked many many times for me on maple, if used per its directions and the dowel as listed above just my 2 cents
_________________
TOMMY YOUNG
MAX-TONE MODIFICATIONS
BMI dealer,Classic VIBE 100 amp... SIT strings..

Rick Johnson · From: Wheelwright, Ky USA

Don
Can you post a pic of the cracks?
It might be possible to pry the cracks
apart and use a syringe and put some
glue in there and get it clamped
back up.
Just a thought?

Rick

www.rickjohnsoncabs.com

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Gorilla WILL stain the finish.

As Rick mentioned, opening it and gluing is usually ok structurally...sometimes you need splines underneath with cross-grain to keep it n place.

But if you want it done properly take it to a guitar luthier that locals recommend...not just a tech, but someone who does structural repairs. Good ones can make most crack repairs completely invisible unless they've gotten dirty.

With body cracks, NO repair i usually better than a bad repair - a bad one will cost FAR more in the long run. If you are not an experienced woodworker and do not know how to melt-in finishes, do progressive wet sanding and buffing (over a couple weeks at least) take it to a pro. When I do a crack repair on a lacquered instrument it's never less than a two-week process. I won't do a "cheap and dirty" repair.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

Ray Walker · From: Smithfield, NC, USA, R.I.P.

Don, let me offer you this. I have done many repairs as I am about to describe and never has one failed.
1. Use a screw (sheet rock screw is fine) From the end of the cabinet place the point of the screw into the crack and screw it in ever so slowly to widen the crack. The crack on ly needs to be opened slightly. Now with a hypo-needle filled with Titebond wood glue, you want to "inject the glue along the entire length of the crack until it flows out of the other side.(you can get the hypo from Tractor Supply) Just get the biggest needle for cows. If you don't have a Tractor Supply you can press the glue bottle into the open crack and force the glue in that way. It is however important that the glue is able to completely touch all surfaces inside the crack for maximum hold.
2. Remove the screw
3. With a furniture clamp, compress the deck of the cabinet in such a way as to squeeze excess glue from the joint, cleaning up with a damp cloth as you go. Make sure you apply ample pressure in such a way as the crack comes together tightly enough to make the crack "appear to disappear". (CAUTION) MAKE SURE THAT YOU PLACE A PIECE OF RUBBER OF SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF CLOTH WHERE CLAMP TOUCHES WOOD TO INSURE YOU DON'T LEAVE A MARK ON THE CABINET.
4. Let stand with the clamp on for 48 hours
5. Remove clamp and proceed with whatever you are going to do with the guitar next....ie..refinish.

If you are not going to refinish the guitar there is something you can do to "repair" the line if you would like...but it takes a few more steps than I have outlined thus far.

Finally, if you have any questions or would like further clarification, please feel free to call me directly. 919-524-1774

Warm regards and Merry Christmas

Ray Walker

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

I want to say a great big THANKS to each of you for taking the time out, to provide me with solutions to getting my G.E.S. to where I can feel ok, with putting her back together again.

For the past year, I've really been in a dither on what to do, or better yet, how to go about doing it. Now, I believe that after reading here, I'll go the way suggested, and described with the "Titebond" Wood Glue, and try spreading the crack a tad, the way Ray described.

I'm sure not done with the thanks, and want each of you to know how much all of your advice means to me. It is, really appreciated. Exclamation

Before I do anything at all, I'll try to get some Real close up pictures sometime tomorrow, (Sunday) That way, you'll all be more able to see if you feel the cracks will open enough to allow glue to be forced down through them.

Ray, Rick, Tommy, Jim, Skip, and Bo.

A big thanks to each of you. Sorry it took me so long to get back. What it comes down to is, each of you had, (more or less) all said glue in one form or another. So we'll say I'm taking all of the advice. I didn't want to drill any holes, unless I absolutely had to, as the tone on this steel, is unreal. She's just kept getting better and better with age, and she sure was one Super Sounding steel, from day one, when brand new.

Pictures will be included in this post, hopefully tomorrow.

Again, thanks to each of you. Ray, thanks so very much for detailing the procedure out so well.

PS: I'd have had no idea how to best attempt to ever so slightly open up the cracks to allow the glue to be forced down and into them. But as I told my wife, she simply feels, plays, and sounds, too good to be packed away and not played.

Don

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Key head end C6 cabinet.

Changer end of C6 Cabinet.

At the key head end, (back apron) the top fastener, is a large wood screw that screws through the corner casting, and directly into the body. The other two fasteners, are flat head bolts. So it would be possible after it's glued and clamped, to drill a pilot hole right on through the cracked portion, and then use a longer (top) wood screw to insure it gets a little extra strength. Yes? No?

I'll put up a pic, so you'll see what I'm talking about. Sometimes, I don't explain things too well, especially, when I've not had any sleep in a couple of days. Don

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

This picture, shows the Top Screw that screws through the corner plate and right into the top side of the cabinet. This is the screw I was saying if I remove it, and then, drill about an inch deeper, (after gluing the crack and pulling it tight with a furniture clamp) then putting in a longer screw, it would possibly offer some added strength, since it would go through one side of the split, and fasten into the other side of the wood to help insure the split doesn't reopen.

This picture shows the tuning peg end of where it started from. I'll remove the corner casting before starting on it.

Thought the pictures would better point out what I was talking about. The wooden corner block, that the leg plate sits on, is a Dove Tailed block of wood, glued in place to give the cabinet added strength, on all corners. It's not simply a corner molding as what it (otherwise) may appear to be in the picture.

Thanks for all the help, I sure do appreciate it. The only fear I have is, I don't want to do anything that could possibly take away from her tonal qualities she's always had. Just something about the wood and how she's designed. I Can't explain it, you'd have to play her to know exactly what I'm talking about. That's a true fact. Don

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Ray,

My wife picked me up an 8 oz. bottle, of the "Titebond Original Wood Glue."

After reading up on Titebond's web site, it would seem as though their "Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue" would be the best glue for gluing "Maple to Maple." It mentions that in fine print as well.

It seems to have a better holding strength, as well as giving more time to align, and many other features.

I'm now wondering if it might be better to use the newest, "Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue."

Here's a link to the specs I was reading on their many different glues. This was the only one I noticed saying: "Maple to Maple"

Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue

PS: I'll probably be giving you a call, after this portion is done, for the next step for taking the line out.

PS: Wrong URL above.

This one should be the correct one:

Newest out Click Here Sorry!

Don

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Hi Russ, not in the general sense of the word, but more or less, dead drunk..

Don

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

I see - Didnt know if it
was a classic case of
"Death-by-Steelguitar"

Shocked

~Russ

Ray Walker · From: Smithfield, NC, USA, R.I.P.

Got your message Don and sent one back

Ray

Don Brown, Sr. · From: New Jersey

Thanks Ray, Don

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